Will Mag's get fully banned in the UK

[Collier]

Originally posted by MrPink
Scotty - the ULT is designed to give a near-electro trigger pull to a mechanical 'Mag. The RT effect has not been fully addressed yet, but as I said earlier, turning down the input pressure effectively reduces the RT effect to stop 'bounce'




By negligable, I mean that if you Chrono @ 290-295 (like most people) then the shoot-up will be (from my personal tests) 2-3 FPS, leaving you still below the limit

This is of course using good paint (Thanks Severe )

Gotta love the quality paint!

Paul

 

[MrPink]

Personally - I don't leave home without it!

 

[Fleisher]

Originally posted by MrPink
Mags are usually picked on as 'Trigger Bounce' examples because of the RT valves ability, when fed with high enough input pressure, to 'sweet-spot' or 'run-away' (I.e. continuely shoot with your finger held in one place on the trigger)
The solution to this problem is surprisingly simple - either turn your input pressure down (as I do), or in the case of E- or X-mags, remove the trigger rod and shoot in Electronic Mode only.

As with any Marker - if you set it up correctly, you won't have a problem

The 2.24 software,when used correctly removes all trigger bounce,and if the input pressure is set at about 800 psi the shoot up dissapears also.
However ,like most leccy markers and some non leccys its quite easy to work bounce into the Xmags operation.
The next software will have a setting on to control the bounce directly ,like on Timmys etc.

 

[TonyF]

Not Again!

This has been done so many times on here....

There seems to be great confusion over what trigger bounce really is.

Don't get it confused with an over reactive trigger, which still is technically one pull - one shot.

Reactive when the trigger is pushed back and maintaining the same pressure on it will cause the marker to cycle again.
Over reactive markers are not allowed in most tournies!

Bounce an electro only problem. When the switch begins to wear the contacts can make/break several times when the trigger is pulled, causing the marker to cycle several times per pull.

Auto is hold the trigger in and spray!

Runaway is when the marker continues to fire even after the trigger is released. This can be caused by an over sensitive trigger switch, that is re-activated by the vibration of firing or worn switch/internals If it only takes a light tap to the rear of your gripframe to cycle your marker, there is always the possibility of runaway.
Will scare the cr*p out of you and your team mates!
Totally unusable and needs fixing.

Mags (rt's and e/x mags in manual mode) only ever suffer from reactive triggers. Because of the switch (magnetic) type used on the e/x mag they cannot suffer bounce.
Software will not correct a reactive trigger, I understand AGD are working on a new on/off to reduce the reactivity of the trigger.

 

[Fleisher]

I take your point,but 'bounce' has pretty much become the term for all the above effects apart from auto...which even I understand

And you can get both reactive and bounce on an Xmag,even on electro or certainly the effect ,I know as my Xmag went all weird on me 'till I sorted out the software.But then again most people who know my marker think its "possesed " anyway

 

[Collier]

How does the new software control shootup? I thought that was a characteristic of the valve?

Paul

 

[Godlike player]

It seems that some people are hell bent on opening a can of worms maybe to suit themselves, maybe not. Whilst we are at it we should also ban any electronic marker that can have the velocity altered in software, because that is a massive cheat which is going around at the moment. On certain guns you can alter the dwell setting so that as you fire faster the velocity goes up, sometimes as much as 40 fps. How are you going to marshal that? No chrono will work with a gun rapid firing, so how do you catch these people? In a nutshell you cannot, so all guns that are able to do this, should be banned, because the velocity going that high would bring them over 12 foot pounds and then they become firearms in the U.K. Also what about the ever increasing use of shot buffering? This is when the gun cannot fire the trigger pull for one reason or another. (Which I will not go into at the moment) The shot then gets stored in memory for use later, this way you can store many shots and release them all, as the paint feeds in. This results in a gun that will fire extra shots even after the trigger is released. It is basically almost full auto and there are at least 3 brands of guns that do this.
Mmm, burst fire, over 12 ft lbs, that then brings these guns into section 5 of the UK firearms act, and could result in 10 years in prison. I notice that you import one of these guns that are able to do these tricks, so you should watch what you import from here in the U.S. Mr. Collier, as you may find that you are foul of the law.


Basically my point is, that there isn't an electronic marker out there, than cannot have some sort of "Tweaking". If you're going to pick on one, then you have to accept that all the others will be picked on.
If we go down this road, then every electro will have the finger pointed for one reason or another, and will have to be banned.
You should all be very careful what you start here, because you may end up regretting it.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by Godlike player
It seems that some people are hell bent on opening a can of worms maybe to suit themselves, maybe not. Whilst we are at it we should also ban any electronic marker that can have the velocity altered in software, because that is a massive cheat which is going around at the moment. On certain guns you can alter the dwell setting so that as you fire faster the velocity goes up, sometimes as much as 40 fps. How are you going to marshal that? No chrono will work with a gun rapid firing, so how do you catch these people? In a nutshell you cannot, so all guns that are able to do this, should be banned, because the velocity going that high would bring them over 12 foot pounds and then they become firearms in the U.K. Also what about the ever increasing use of shot buffering? This is when the gun cannot fire the trigger pull for one reason or another. (Which I will not go into at the moment) The shot then gets stored in memory for use later, this way you can store many shots and release them all, as the paint feeds in. This results in a gun that will fire extra shots even after the trigger is released. It is basically almost full auto and there are at least 3 brands of guns that do this.
Mmm, burst fire, over 12 ft lbs, that then brings these guns into section 5 of the UK firearms act, and could result in 10 years in prison. I notice that you import one of these guns that are able to do these tricks, so you should watch what you import from here in the U.S. Mr. Collier, as you may find that you are foul of the law.


Basically my point is, that there isn't an electronic marker out there, than cannot have some sort of "Tweaking". If you're going to pick on one, then you have to accept that all the others will be picked on.
If we go down this road, then every electro will have the finger pointed for one reason or another, and will have to be banned.
You should all be very careful what you start here, because you may end up regretting it.

Maybe you should be carefull about what YOU state here!!!

I'm afraid you appear to of gotten the wrong end of the stick as to my involvment in this thread.
I'm interested in the technology side of this sport as well as the playing and the safety. I am certainly not 'hell bent' on opening any can of worms, I was merely asking how software can control somthing that the valve does
As to the markers I import, I don't know of any way of 'storing up' shots nor of any way of how to get the dwell to Ramp up I do remember reading somthing about the dwell ramp on the timmy boards at pbnation, the idea was that the Timmy suffered badly from shootdown at high ROF, the dwell would ramp to compensate. Certainly not somthing I've witnessed on any of the WAS'd markers I've used, or needed on either of the AKA markers.
There is a delayed mode on the WAS board but this holds one shot not multiples, if the ball is not detected the board waits a short delay before firing the idea being that in those milliseconds the unfed ball would drop.

So sorry no motive here!

Paul

 

[rob_evanson]

Originally posted by Godlike player
It seems that some people are hell bent on opening a can of worms maybe to suit themselves, maybe not.

No, no, no, no. You completly mis understood what I was trying to achieve in this thread, it wasn't my intent for it to be a "witch hunt" or to open a can of worms. I was finding out if I bought a Mag would it become useless to me at touney level because of them being banned for trigger bounce, as I'm sure I read in PGI that some American tournies have done this and I know that markers at UK event's are being removed from games because marshalls have found that they can get them to "bounce".

 

[Godlike player]

Its ok rob i know what you were trying to get at its mr colier that i think is trying to stir it up as i said in my previous post there are guns that will ramp velocity in the software

(the Timmy suffered badly from shootdown at high ROF, the dwell would ramp to compensate)

if this can be done then the offending guns should be banned as they are illegal by law in the uk if they go over 12 ft lbs which is around 315fps with an average weight paintball and there is no way of checking for it and how much the gun actually ramps.

(There is a delayed mode on the WAS board but this holds one shot not multiples, if the ball is not detected the board waits a short delay before firing the idea being that in those milliseconds the unfed ball would drop.)

if one shot can be held then its illegal as that shot would be discharged at some point without the requirement of a further trigger pull and also if it can store one shot then it can store more as I have seen with some guns they kick into what I can only describe as a turbo mode which is also banned.