Will a foreign team ever win in tha US?

[TJ Lambini]

Yep, let's shut tha boards down...

Rick, did you guys see much in tha way of wiping, or was it more playing on and ignoring hits?

peace

 

[Wadidiz]

Did Sweden do the right thing?

As a Yank living in Sweden I'm between a rock and a hard place. On the Swedish forum there is talk about how they got screwed by bad judging "over there". (Not like I haven't heard that one before.)

I really appreciate Rick's post. I know what it is like to bust your gonads to do a good, impartial job of reffing. It is frustrating to give what you have to give to be a good ref and then have to put up with the whining (or worse) afterwards. I actually enjoyed the opportunity to ref before because I loved to be right in the middle of it and learn from what I saw. I took pride in doing a good, fair and impartial job. Now, I , like Rick, hate it.

Now, the question: Whaddup with Magued and the Swedish team's decision to pull out? (I know we're walking on egg shells here.) Was it more because of being physically worn out or because they were getting the shaft? Bad losers or courageous protest? Hypothetically, they could have gone on to beat the Russians and then had a new shot at the Yanks.

What gives?

 

[Beaker]

TJ, I watched about 5 games of the IAO on the Wednesday (I have no idea what level were playing but it was 5 man) and I have to say I have never seen such blatant cheating in all my years. In 3 of the games I saw blatant wipes. Now I am not talking getting hit on a run and bellying in, but straight out pull the jersey down over your gloves and polish ones - and no, they weren't ever "seen" by refs. Incompetance or bias - I would say incompetence from what I saw of the refs. I have to admit I only watched X-ball after that, I just couldn't believe it.

The Xball refs were great, mad props too them. I agree with Robbo in that I never saw bias, only mistakes, and they happen. I have to say (and it was not there fault in any way) they were probably soo damm tired that mistakes occured, they were definately very up on things the first day and has been said elsewhere, those that push the rules are more likely to get away with things and with tired refs that's even more true.

If one thing we learn from Xball is the need for MANY reffing teams changing every match at least and possibly every half or quarter. The guys looked shattered and that is only going to help the cheaters.

The swedes apparently pulled out becuase they had a short series of decisions all go "against" them. But as they played 4 players EVERY game and only seemed to rotate 1 they were blown out.

 

[Rick Hartman]

X Ball Reffing

TJ, We did not see much wiping. We saw most of the guys playing on with hits. With the Swedes I really feel bad that they pulled out because they blame us. But the truth is we had some friends on the Sweden Team and I hope they are still our friends.The Swedes did have a couple of calls that went against them in the forth Quarter. But I think they got more upset with those calls then they should of.It started to take them out of their mindset of playing paintball. They could of came back and won the match, But they did not pull it together they decided to give up and forfiet the Match. This X Ball format is just as much Mental as it is playing.

Another note on the Sweden Team is that from Match one they thought that the reffs where against them just because we are Americans. The Spectactors hated us (reffs)because we did not favor the American team, Like I said before we had the Americans in the penalty box more then any other team. I have heard that it seemed that the spectactors where favoring towards the American team. This was true since it was on American Soil. And I am sure it would be the same if we went to Sweden. The Swedes would favor the Sweden team. Everyone needs to Remember that all the teams that played made history and should be proud of that. I think it would be a great Idea for each Country to bring a reffing Crew that way when US is Playing France. You would Have the Reffs from Sweden and Russia reffing. I dont know if it would work but it sure would take the Blame off the reffs for being Bias.


Thanks Rick Hartman
Team Nasty



Makers of the Nasty Impulse
www.paintballwholesalers.com

 

[TJ Lambini]

Having spoken to a few more guys who were there, tha consensus seems to be that:

1 - There was no bias in tha reffing
2 - Tha Brits were tha cleanest team there
3 - The US was definitely the superior team, but they were also more heavily penalised than anyone else and there were numerous playing on and bonus-balling incidents, plus some pretty blatant wipes that got tha crowd incensed.

But hey, US won despite tha pens...so I guess that if the judging was fair and the pens adequate, then tha best team won. And let's face it, winners push things to tha limits in all sports...

 

[Beaker]

Please accept my apologies if the last post didn't make sense but I was fighting jet lag and losing.

One thing I would highly reccomend is that we introduce the idea of set penalties like the MSPA (I think that's the one) has done.

Justin Owen knows more as I spoke with him in Toulouse about it, but basically it says, if you have a hit on body parts XZY (say your front) you get a 1-4-1 (equal to say a 2 min penalty) regardless of whether you say you felt it or not. If you get hit in the goggles it's 2-4-1 (5 mins?). Basically there is a map of a body which shows which areas get which penalties, doesn't matter if you cry blue murder, you get the penalty.

It seems like a great system, it's harsh, but everyone is treated completely equally as the refs don't have to (or can't) adjudge intent on the players behalf. This would also cut down on possible claims of bias.

 

[Wadidiz]

The rules are clear enough...

...when it come to playing on in NPPL, Millennium and MSPA. Most of what we're talking about here is continuing to shoot after you feel you (most likely) have been hit. How often have you heard, "No matter what happens, you get up there and take those two guys out!" in the pre-game plan. I fear it is all the more common at the top level.

The quickest solution I see is to make sure all refs at least agree on how they deal with muggings and on how to sort out the players that play on. I usually agree with the refs around me to yell "hit" when we see the player we're focusing on get marked. In other words, my job is to primarily focus on the player coming towards the player closest to me, and my partner ref's job is to look at the guy closest to me and shout hit when he gets marked. If the other ref yells hit then I know to wipe off any paint that comes after that. Clear enough? And all of this must be done without giving away the mugging.

Then we have to be totally consistent on penalties. 1-for-1's and 2-for-1's as suitable.

And I believe we should make 3 of the same violation = pulled from tournament. And maybe second time pulled from a tournament = suspended for the season.

Maybe it's a stretch, but perhaps more consistent catching and properly penalizing the rule-breakers could result in players learning to quit shooting after they know they're hit.

Steve

 

[Baca Loco]

The rules are clear enough...

Originally posted by Wadidiz
The quickest solution I see is to make sure all refs at least agree on how they deal with muggings and on how to sort out the players that play on. I usually agree with the refs around me to yell "hit" when we see the player we're focusing on get marked. In other words, my job is to primarily focus on the player coming towards the player closest to me, and my partner ref's job is to look at the guy closest to me and shout hit when he gets marked. If the other ref yells hit then I know to wipe off any paint that comes after that. Clear enough? And all of this must be done without giving away the mugging.

Exactly the way we do it when we have to ref but how often do you even see one guy in the "right" place to make a call much less two guys coordinating their efforts to make the correct call? Close to never in my experience.

 

[Wadidiz]

True, true

I forgot to add what you just said. It very seldom is easy or even possible to get the mugging situations right. Most of the time both players have to get pulled, often with both of them screaming about hitting the other player first. But maybe better ref training and the tougher rules I suggested for collecting penalties during a tournament can reduce the playing on.

What do you think about 3 strikes and you're out?

 

[Buddha 3]

True, true

Originally posted by Wadidiz


What do you think about 3 strikes and you're out?

Sounds good to me...