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UK Paintball Pt 2

Silky

-Relentless-
Aug 31, 2004
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A start..

Originally posted by Chuck

Iron lions-Ed, I had a look at that thread and was shocked to see that Silky hadn't included Justin Pauly and me! Justin will give you a ring about Wednesday or Thursday night(14th,15th).
apologies chief

Ed- See above, chucks army will be in attendence

chuck: leave ya new bleep test at home tho next week, i dont wanna be its first victim haha
 

stongle

Crazy Elk. Mooooooooooo
Aug 23, 2002
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Hmmmm interesting thread and whilst I do agree that we have “a displaced walk-on community”, I’m not so sure the real root cause is defined here. The following is an opinion, so quit sharpening the kebab knife if you disagree Pete.

I’d agree the way forward is as described, but I think your picking on a symptom of the problem. OK it’s a pretty big symptom, but to cure this we have to understand the real problem.

The real problem with UK Paintball, is Paint, the supply of it. The ready supply of Paint to individuals and teams is destabilising the UK Paintball scene. When we talk of novice teams we’re really reffering to mini paint buying syndicates. 7 mates club together to buy Paint at outrageously cheap prices, and then expect to rock up to a site and use it. If ever 3 letters fcuked UK ball, it was BYO.

With the whole of the community expecting to be allowed to bring their own bullets and not buy from the site, the site owners have very little incentive to cater for the improvements you advocate as recouping that investment is going to take a very long time. In business if the return on investment is beyond a certain date range it ain’t going to get looked at (regardless of how sensible the solution really is). This fast buck principle applies to both Paintball site operators and big business alike, I’m not really sure you can change the nature of business.

Now, if you can change the way Paint is supplied, and get some control of this back to the sites, the site owners can start to see how some of this additional investment can be recouped. Getting the site owners into the loop means paint can be priced on a sliding scale and discounts on the box price better incentivised. With teams currently able to flit between who can supply a box at the cheapest price, we have an ongoing Paint price war, and all of us are getting botty raped in the process.

Now if you really want to change the UK scene, why start with bundles of site operators, why not just try and influence the 10 or so people who control the flow of Paint. There’s a lot that can be done at this level, which need not be outlined here. Whilst I’m sure at the outside that seems like trying to broker a Middle East peace deal, but the interests of Piper, Baldwin and co ain’t any different. Yes we may be heading towards a cartel environment, and certain suppliers may need to be completely frozen out of the marketplace but regulating paint supply is good for all. Well except the mini buying cartels – Novice Teams. The fact is Paintball may need to become a little more expensive in the short term to the casual player. If the path to cheaper ball is actually to play more and get better, it don’t take a rocket scientist to work out what you need to do. Break down the reason for the existence of these mini buying syndicates, and you can solve some of your displacement issues.

If we are to truly emulate the US model, then you also need to introduce other factors, unfortunately my laptop battery ain’t gonna last that long (hoorraahh!!!!).
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
I wonder, Glenn, if you aren't looking at the wrong end of the paint supply issue.
Would it be out of line to suggest the sites are artifically--given the market prices of paint--elevating their prices to such an extreme and then trying to toe that line that the real problem of a disjointed paint market comes from the top, not the bottom?
Frankly, I don't see how manipulating the price of paint in favor of the extreme serves anyone's long term interest and the goal ought to be a consistent market price based as purely as possible on simple supply and demand.
 

Cusack

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2005
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Letters should be sent to all the site owners with the contents of this thread!

These are a few of my ideas from the thread:

1. Acadamy days sounds great, and to get people for it, that's easy for the site, and the marshalls themselves can help out too: The top gun prize being an invite to the training day for one or two top guns per team or game - not fully paid, that way it feels more like they've earned the privalage and actually have a chance at progressing.

The numbers would easily build up and could be manageable with however many training days the site wanted to have per month, proportional to how many invites they give out. The marshalls would be looking out for people with real sup-air potential to be converted, like where i work, marshalls give out top gun awards with prizes like dvd's, t-shirts etc, instead they could be giving invites to potential players...

(does this make sense!)

2. My other idea was to get some high profile games going on with semi-pros or something like that using turf and full netting. Spectators could watch for as long as they wanted to and sponsors would be able to help fund these due to: selling their products / promoting their site / selling paint to the players (who would me in easy supply). This format could be manipulated in many ways, for example allowing some people to have a game or allowing teams to train there.

3. I agree with reball and the ideas of having tourney advertised at sites and i think some of the revenue for this could come from sponsors, paintball companies paying to have their products advertised to every single new player that visits. This could be a try out of the marker or the best player of the day wins the JT goggles (or a pair for heavy discount). These manufacturers could help to bridge the gap between the punters and the walk-ons because people will want to use the new piece of kit and get into the walk-on scene. This could work for magazines, jerseys, anything as the total price for these manufacturers could be brought down by offering the winner the product for discount, or giving out less of them in 1 day. It's very similar to paint sales as manufacturers are more concerned with site deals instead of teams, except here the product gets advertised, not bought.
hope at least 1 of these may be useful.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
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Originally posted by Piggsy
Letters should be sent to all the site owners with the contents of this thread!

Hahahahahaha, Piggsy, these site owners who you suggest might be receptive to a 'letter' would no more, could no more change their practices than they could think about investing in better facilities for their existing punters let alone for developing in a future cusotmer base.
They just don't see the bigger picture here.
They are incapable of thinking professionally, basically we can't polish turds.

As I mentioned in another post, for a rough take on our average site owner's business ethos, look at their sites, I mean has it changed much in the last 10 years?
Players get changed in crappy lean to's, get served crappy food, go to the loo in......eeekkkk, well you know how that one goes.. and so on and so on.

And have you also noticed a conspicuous lack of response from site owners, I have been told of a few people, quite well known site owners whispering in the background in a quasi- denial of what I am saying but bottom line is, I am being truthful...I'll rip them a new ass if they try to justify their position on here and they know it, that's the bottom line here.


Stongle, re your points, I gotta swerve over to Baca's response which irks me a little because I like to think I considered my response but in the end I'm just aligning myself with the cow :)
 

Nick Brockdorff

New Member
Jul 9, 2001
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Strongle:

It's not like anyone is forcing the site owners to run BYO games.... anyone of them can decide anytime to do site paint only.

Also - if you put the paint market firmly in the control of the sites - what happens to all the retailers out there that sell the paint today?

And honestly - I don't think you are right about this being a problem... if site owners were willing to sell paint at the same price as the existing retailers - there would be no reason for walk on players to go through the inconvenience, of having to go to a shop to pick up paint and bringing it to the site.

Heck - many large sites get better prices than retailers, because of their volume - and would be able to compete easily.... so the problem is not how the market is structured, but that many site owners do not seem aware of the opportunities.

Nick
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
It's also a case of size of the site. Yes fellas, size does matter, sorry about that...

There are a few sites in Holland, the ass end of the paintball universe, that cater to the regular players. I'll use one's system as an example.
Players can become members of the club, which entitles them to play pretty much every weekend and buy paint at very reasonable prices. The condition is that it has to be site paint only, but at those prices, that ain't a biggy.
What this does is ensure a healthy growth, as rental types get to see the other side of paintball, teams can train and get better (and they do!) and it has also increased traffic in the shops. Hooray!

But, the site that I talk about has a good number of fields, including room for multiple Sup'Air fields (which they have).
If however you are a small site, with only one or two playing fields...

Personally I'd scratch myself behind the head as well if I had to choose between making longterm money, or get a ****load off of some rentals right now! Maybe not the nice thing to do, but it does mean I get to buy that dishwasher today.
 

stongle

Crazy Elk. Mooooooooooo
Aug 23, 2002
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Paul, Pete, Nick,

I obviously haven't explained myself well enough, (my laptop was dying). I'm not referring to absolutes at all, nor tilting the price of pain on it's head, however I think you may need to step out of your Tournament world and look at the prices walk-ons and novice, novice teams are actually paying for paint these days.

Slashing the price of paint at sites ain't going to help the matter either, 1 it's suicide for the site owners 2, it ain't going to help and customer to player conversion rate as Paintball for a dayout ain't really that expensive (plus the actual customer experience at these sites is crap anyway).

Forcing a better relationship between teams and sites, and teams actuallu affiliating and promoting their local sites would benefit all. The teams could recieve better prices on paint for promoting the site to customers. Help the site owners develop better fields to increase the entertainment experience for all.

I'm going to have to postpone the rest for now, stag do at Spearmint Rhino beckons, I'll try for more tomorrow.

G