Uk National Paintball league

[Buddha 3]

Cut the off topic crap, back on topic...

so the conclusion is that nothing is going to change,and this topic will be back same time next year pity the three organisers can,t agree on a single format at least . but at least its a new season and we can all try to improve our game.one good thing for the new year is that the woodland scene seems to be getting thier act together with organised walk-ons and a 5-man tournie scene that uses the same format through out the country no matter who is organising it, they call it the national paintball club and the genesis series this could be the firm base from which britball starts to grow again.some teams have seen the potential and are starting woodland teams to nurture new ballers in a steadier enviroment and also giving the hobby ballers among us a viable alternative to sup-air without all the politics, that disillusion alot of players who just throw in the towel and packup so the powers that be should look at what the organisers of the npc have started and take aleaf out of thier book one format but none of the organisers have lost any of thier patch infact most have grown through thier co-operation with each other.maybe next year sup- air can learn to do the same (wishful thinking )

It's a bit too easy to say that the woodies are getting it right, where the Suppies are suffering from infighting. You can bet your ass that if woodsball would somehow skyrocket and become paintball's "posterboy", money grabbin' and politics will take over there as well. Nothing to do with paintball, just the way of the world I'm afraid...

 

[Russell Smith]

so the conclusion is that nothing is going to change,and this topic will be back same time next year pity the three organisers can,t agree on a single format at least . but at least its a new season and we can all try to improve our game.one good thing for the new year is that the woodland scene seems to be getting thier act together with organised walk-ons and a 5-man tournie scene that uses the same format through out the country no matter who is organising it, they call it the national paintball club and the genesis series this could be the firm base from which britball starts to grow again.some teams have seen the potential and are starting woodland teams to nurture new ballers in a steadier enviroment and also giving the hobby ballers among us a viable alternative to sup-air without all the politics, that disillusion alot of players who just throw in the towel and packup so the powers that be should look at what the organisers of the npc have started and take aleaf out of thier book one format but none of the organisers have lost any of thier patch infact most have grown through thier co-operation with each other.maybe next year sup- air can learn to do the same (wishful thinking )

As far as the three organisers agreeing on a single format..... I don't think we should or more to the point why should we, Wendy has run a very successful five man series for a few years and has even run a three man and a seven man for a few events each and she also does a ten man once a year so every format is more or less available with a single organiser so the UK Masters has as much experience as anyone when it comes to formats but which is the correct one, I am sure Wendy would tell you that if players want to play a format we should give them the opportunity.
Even the Millennium Series offers two formats as in five and seven man, but I think the basis of your point is the re-emergence of woodsball and I believe it is far more valuable than people give it credit for, it will never recreate the wealth of players it used to have but it will provide a natural transition from site customer to tourney player and some will progress to sup air and that will be great for everyone.
As for using the same format..! hmmm I get confused with that statement because genesis series does a league of five man then it becomes ten man and at the end (light permitting) it becomes twenty a side and that is only to generate paint sales and of course to give the players extra games.
Don't get me wrong I am old school and I expect to be at all the northern genesis events but lets see it for what it is, a commercial event like all the rest but aimed at a new market.
And I love it

Russ

 

[Robbo]

Even the Millennium Series offers two formats as in five and seven man, but I think the basis of your point is the re-emergence of woodsball and I believe it is far more valuable than people give it credit for, it will never recreate the wealth of players it used to have but it will provide a natural transition from site customer to tourney player and some will progress to sup air and that will be great for everyone.
Russ

That transition is in spite of the majority of our site owners and not in my opinion because of them, a little off topic but hey, who gives a sh!t when it gives me an opportunity to have another pop at our site owners
For the most part, they desreve it ...

 

[Robbo]

Pete og Russ:

.....

Nick

Nick, are you confusing Russ Steele with Russ Smith here?

 

[JoseDominguez]

That transition is in spite of the majority of our site owners and not in my opinion because of them, a little off topic but hey, who gives a sh!t when it gives me an opportunity to have another pop at our site owners
For the most part, they desreve it ...

Run a tourney or training to further the sport/pocket £6000 for a Saturday standing in a field while some 16 year olds run around marshalling for £30?

Let me see...............


I'd always thought about getting a few like minded players together and starting a 'players' site. Then I remembered communism, which is also a lovely idea until people start getting involved.

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

I'm joining the debate late as I have had some time off for Xmas and New Year. First off, to all the doubters out there, the "3-Organisers" don't have nearly as many problems with each other as popular opinion would indicate, and many of the individuals involved in organising UK events do frequently do it for the love of the game and a desire to see the sport mature. From personal experience, I can say that is fact. Also, we have tried to organise national initiatives in the past and when the PA was born, tried to support that as much as possible. But yes, we do have to protect our interests in these discussions. Not only the profits that allow us to continue holding events and dedicate so much time to paintball, but we also have to protect our player base in terms of ensuring whatever agreements are made is in the best interest of the majority of individuals who participate in our events.

In my opinion, a National League other than the PA is not required at this stage and the UK player-base cannot support one. Nationalised rules are a good idea and must be adopted by all the 3 UK Series', including the PA. If the PA is ever going to be the true National League, then it needs to be a spring-board for an international circuit: In Europe, this is the Millennium.

The unified rules have to come down from the Millennium... this is where we want our teams to be competitive, so we need to use their rules and as much as their format as possible without excluding or alienating the newer or "just-for-fun" teams.

We met last year with the EPBF to discuss the unification of player registration, ref development and rules unification. The meeting went well and this is exactly how things need to happen: The European Paintball Federation needs to decide the rules for the Millennium and these need, in turn, to be adapted by the National and Regional leagues in all European countries. At the meeting, it was agreed that the ball would get rolling in early 2007, ready for the 2007 season. I hope this is all still going ahead and we have an announcement soon, but I have heard very little. Russ should be able to give us more insight on that one as he is head of the EPBF Rules Committee. He did hint that something was nearing completion and if this is the case, I urge to EPBF to let the various national and regional leagues around europe aware of this so that we can all look at adopting this new rule set from the off.

Whilst on the subject of Russ, a personal message to you good buddy... Your opinons about myself approaching Extreme Mayhem as a result of your contact with them in an effort to spoil your negoiations with them are misconceived. Extreme Mayhem have made it very clear that they do not want to get involved with any internal paintball politics and by their very nature and that fact, are an approachable company who are prepared to enter discussions with anyone with ideas and events of interest to them. They were at the Euro 5 Man curtesy of all the efforts of Warren Maxwell. I discussed their intentions with the sport with them at that event and expressed my interest in talking further. We have had some minor conversation since that time and at no time have I tried or even thought it was worth trying to undermine your relationship with them. Extreme's involvement in UK Paintball is exciting stuff and I genuinely hope it all comes to fruition. With the PAs association with PBUK, it is the natural place for Extreme Mayhem to concentrate their efforts, but does that mean that other areas of the sport should not talk to them? I don't think Extreme would agree with that.

Anyway, to sum up, take a good look at what is already going on in the UK at the moment and let's try to build on what we have already got. We do not really need a new national league quite yet - we just need some unification and co-operation with a willingness to take the top-down approach of following the Millennium's lead to the full extent of our abilities without damaging the player base.

 

[Robbo]

Sooooo many people seemingly 'represent' paintball in the UK

I'm UK Paintball !! ....No, I'm UK Paintball !! ....Noooo, it's me, I'm UK Paintball !!! ...

 

[Russell Smith]

The European Paintball Federation needs to decide the rules for the Millennium and these need, in turn, to be adapted by the National and Regional leagues in all European countries. At the meeting, it was agreed that the ball would get rolling in early 2007, ready for the 2007 season. I hope this is all still going ahead and we have an announcement soon, but I have heard very little. Russ should be able to give us more insight on that one as he is head of the EPBF Rules Committee. He did hint that something was nearing completion and if this is the case, I urge to EPBF to let the various national and regional leagues around Europe aware of this so that we can all look at adopting this new rule set from the off.

The rule set is more or less done but needs to be ratified and agreed on. I am not sure if the membership requirements for the EPBF will get agreed on because the idea that every paintball player in the UK having to become a member at a cost and part of that income goes towards the reffing cost of a millennium event that most of them wont play will cause problems and indeed I know Bully has some concerns.

Whilst on the subject of Russ, a personal message to you good buddy... Your opinions about myself approaching Extreme Mayhem as a result of your contact with them in an effort to spoil your negoiations with them are misconceived.
Extreme Mayhem have made it very clear that they do not want to get involved with any internal paintball politics I discussed their intentions with the sport with them at that event and expressed my interest in talking further. We have had some minor conversation since that time and at no time have I tried or even thought it was worth trying to undermine your relationship with them. Extreme's involvement in UK Paintball is exciting stuff and I genuinely hope it all comes to fruition. With the PAs association with PBUK, it is the natural place for Extreme Mayhem to concentrate their efforts,

Syd like other people I can sometimes make the wrong assumption during a conversation, and if that is the case (and I do believe you) I genuinely apologise.

Russ

 

[Robbo]

Let me just add something here about membership payments by players and it is something you guys really need to read.
Not so long ago I was privy to some 'goings on' whereby someone, somewhere in a league had realised the amount of money to be made in 'membership fees', it is huge !!

The person or persons who can head up a federation and then demand membership fees from its participants is onto an absolute money making machine.

In fact, this individual who was shaping up to do just this was going to use this income to ....hmmm, how shall I put it? ... erm, create some independence let's say.
i know I'm being vague here but bear with me coz I don't really wanna go down the road of naming names because it serves no real purpose.

This income stream in this case was worth more than any profit you could make from running a series trust me, but in saying this, it is of course dependent upon how many members you can get to sign up.
What may be heralded as a 'new era' or even 'new world order' and an opportunity to join the world federation could well be a cheap vehicle to takes your money at the same time ...think about this point for a while and ask yourself something here ... what level could they ask for in terms of a fee????
Think about this very carefully, would it be one Euro?
Hmm, probably not, probably more than that.
How much more?
Well, that all depends you see...and it depends upon the greed factor of the people offering up the membership, and the real danger for you players is......if this offer comes from something as serious sounding as say, the 'New World Order' (or whatever) and it has the political, league and industry backing, how you gonna say 'no' to a 35 Euro price tag..or maybe even 50? ...hmmm, how's a 100 sound???

The point of my post is, you players out there, in one sense you hold little power, in another, you hold a lot..it's all a matter of how you play it and how you organize yourselves.
If you do nothing, you will have no power; if you get your finger out, you can grab some.
The political momentum generated by these people will steamroller many a baller into joining .... if you stay unorganized, you will get hammered, trust me !!!!!!!!!!!!

In the next few years, there will be several bodies who will struggle to represent you on many levels ...... just think about what's said and why they say things, don't believe anything you hear until proven otherwise, a little cynical I know but wholly appropriate believe me

PS I ain't talking domestic memberships here !

 

[Raffles]

Syd - while you are here - do you still get support from Nat West? Sorry if that's a bit of a daft question - but I've never been to one of your events (yet) - hence the question.

The reason I ask is this. If there is already interest in "sup'air" (notice I didn't say "paintball") from outside parties - then why don't we exploit it to our benefit?

At the moment I know that Nat West, Motorola and Lucozade Sport all either show or have shown an interest of some sort - yet there is no reference to any paintball activity on their websites or press literature.

Is there a reason that these companies keep such a low profile?

Please feel free to pm me if you don't want to post in here (assuming you want to tell me of course ).

There is a reasoning behind this - I'm not just being a nosey git (for a change).

Sorry to run off topic...