Welcome To P8ntballer.com
The Home Of European Paintball
Sign Up & Join In

Uk National Paintball league

J@mes

If in doubt, flat out!
Jul 11, 2006
3,048
0
71
37
Wakefield, West Yorks.
I don't think you realise just how easy and cheap it is to travel in the states, my mate lives in detroit and he'll fly to the mountains one weekend for skiing and then to the coast for sunbathing the next.

"Petrol is so CHEAP, and they use planes like taxi's", it takes me 2.5 hours to make the 50 miles to the start of the M1 on a friday night?:mad:

If i could get around the UK as easily as they do in the states then i'd be doing events all over the UK, but the reality states that i have a life outside of paintball and due to the crap road and rail infrastructure in the UK, phrohibits major road trips on a regular basis
Word on that, thing with traveling in the UK you have to allow time for retarded traffic jams, and as said before, things are just so much cheaper in the states.

i really like the Idea of one league, but can it really work, is there really any places that can hold, and cater for all leagues combined?

-james
 

cookie_834

P8ntball killed me....
Oct 28, 2004
1,248
4
63
in a house with a window
Visit site
i travel for 3 hours for training. M1 then M25. From junction 23A of the M1 round to Dartford on the M25. its a pain in the ass but if you want to get better you have to take those steps. so surely if one league was created that made such an impact it would be better to go to it and improve? nope? ahhh jst me then
 

J@mes

If in doubt, flat out!
Jul 11, 2006
3,048
0
71
37
Wakefield, West Yorks.
i travel for 3 hours for training. M1 then M25. From junction 23A of the M1 round to Dartford on the M25. its a pain in the ass but if you want to get better you have to take those steps. so surely if one league was created that made such an impact it would be better to go to it and improve? nope? ahhh jst me then
i'm not complaining about traveling, if it has to be done, then do it.

i travel 2 and bit hours to training (well i dont do the driving, but you get my drift), simply what i was saying is, is there anywhere that can accommodate for so many people all at once.... if the fact was that no where could, and each div. of the league would be held elsewhere... then what would be the point?

-james
 

Russell Smith

The Paintball Association
I have noticed a recurring theme throughout this thread, that of us all using the millennium rulebook and I just think to myself why on earth would they want to………..
For a start I doubt any more than a handful of refs in the UK actually know them enough to use them correctly in a game and for the rest who think they do because they once got told a rule during a drive to an event they spoil an inadequate rule set with their own misconceived interpretations of the rules.
People claim we (the PA) use our own set of rules and that would be correct because we must have control of the rule book to comply with sports council criteria, and if you read any high level rule book you would see a lot of similarities with the PA version, the only difference is I like to think ours is usable in a game condition.
It is far and above the Millennium rule book and I know because I have read both.
And who am I to come to that decision, well besides being in charge of the rules at the PA, I am also chairman of the Millennium rules committee!
And that’s why I have been asked to rewrite the rules they use – a process that is near completion – and guess what they will look like………………

Russ

PS - have you ever read any rulebook, I know players who have been in the game for years who never have but they all have opinions on field.
 

Russell Smith

The Paintball Association
And one of my favourite rules in the Millenniums;
The mechanical bounce test, where the chronograph judge slaps the back of the gun to see if it shoots, and when the question was asked about how much force would be used the reply came back as and I quote “as hard as you would smack a baby”
I don’t smack babies:confused:

Russ:)
 

Bob

www.inlinewalking.com
Oct 12, 2005
2,852
3
63
38
Aberdeen
www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk
And one of my favourite rules in the Millenniums;
The mechanical bounce test, where the chronograph judge slaps the back of the gun to see if it shoots, and when the question was asked about how much force would be used the reply came back as and I quote “as hard as you would smack a baby”
I don’t smack babies:confused:

Russ:)
Isn't it now illigal to physicaly educate your child? In which case yay no bounce test ;)

When will the new rules be available?
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Not a totally fair comparison Cookie. Even though the attitudes that I've seen in European paintball sometimes make me shake my head in disbelief, you can't compare the travel over here with that of the US.
First of all, most of the lower divisions' teams in the NPPL for example are from the state or surrounding states (please correct my if I'm wrong Baca or Missy). Also, travel is much much cheaper in the US. Even though US residents are bitching and moaning about gas prices, it's still a quarter of what it costs here.
For the national events figure about half the lower division teams are in-state or not too far away. However the difference is in entry fees. You can play events with between 50-100 teams with decent reffing and prizes for $300-$500 entries whereas the big events are around $2000, give or take.
As for basic travel I drive 3 hours one way to practice every time and we have guys who drive double that. Course our practices are whole weekends too.
Fact is there is no real reason over here to play the big events other than to see how you stack up because many places have reasonably well organized and regular local and regional event scenes. Tho there is also no doubt that some block of lower division teams will play an event or maybe two a year just to do it.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Pete, quick questions for you mate.

If 85% of the pa teams said we arent playing another leg until we play under full millenium ruling, in your opinion what do you think would happen?
I wouldn't normally be so evasive as to answer a question with another question but on this occasion, it's wholly appropriate because you still haven't managed to grasp the true nature of what you are saying and so here goes :-

Mikey, If my aunt had bollocks, would she be my uncle?

This should give you a clue as to how I view the question you are asking me....
 

Liz

New Member
Jan 17, 2002
2,381
1
0
Kent, UK
Visit site
I'm another one who was going to keep well out of this, but there have been a few comments that I felt were maybe a touch naieve. "The customer is always right" - lets look at few of the things leagues have been asked for over the years (there are loads more, these are just the top ones that come to mind).

"We want a well equipped venue with good road links". There are a few places around available, but they tend to cost more. The moment an organiser says they've got a great venue, but it'll cost the players another £100 a team, interest wanes. There are a few exceptions (Syd's Heaven's Gate event comes to mind) but there's only room for a few in the calendar.

"We want loads of good refs". Try finding them! Players want to PLAY not ref, and tbh why should anyone want to drive 2-3 hours at silly-o'clock of the morning, work and get shot at all day, get verbally abused and possibly physically threatened, and drive home again, for the amount the organisers can afford to pay them? Of course there are great and dedicated refs in the UK, but not enough. And see what happens when the organisers put the game fee up to pay the refs a decent amount and to supply more of them....... That's without the common problem of refs just not turning up on the day.

"We want a league that means the Sports Council will recognise the sport". Hmmmm, well one of the first things about a "proper" league is that all the teams can play all of the events, otherwise you get teams having to move up & down divisions on a monthly basis which is no way to accurately gauge who is the best. One of the biggest problems the PA had in the early days was getting teams to commit to 6 days a year - that was all, just 6 days.

It mostly boils down to 2 things as far as I can see - apathy and money. For some reason paintballers seem to think they can get top quality events on the cheap and it's their right to do so. And at the same time if something IS on offer that is what they want, they aren't even prepared to put themselves out more than a little. This IS a generalisation, I do know there are some top teams and very dedicated players around the country, but from what I've seen the majority of ballers seem to be like this.

I really wish I had a solution, but in all the years I've played and been involved in the sport, and all the number of attempts I've seen people make to try to change things, I'm still trying to come up with one :confused:
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Russ - I read your first post in this thread and then I re-read it to make sure of what I was reading, both the lines themselves and between them.
And in the end you made it easy for me because there is a saying in common usage and it's, 'the bottom line'.
Basically it refers to the last line; in other words, the last line has the real meaning and in your case, your last line contextualizes that post to nothing more than a promo vehicle for the PA.
And please don't go all off in a tizzy suggesting I am biased against the PA coz if you read my posts on here over the years, I am apparently biased against the NPPL, PSP, Millennium and Lord knows who else; basically I will comment, good or bad, on all of them and I have upset all of them in the past as you well know.

Now we have that little point out of the way I can continue...
Russ, I got nothing against you or the PA but when you come on P8nt and post and I see something contentious or misleading, I am gonna answer it, no matter who you are !

The PA has a history of what looks like martyring themselves, it is a perennial accusation that you face and your initial post in this thread does little to change people's opinion.
Why do you keep going on about other people who have allegedly disagreed with you guys or as you imply, worked against you?
FFS get over it mate, move on, ignore them, do what you think you gotta do and don’t keep going on about them because it looks as though you are using them as an excuse for reasons why you haven't grown as you'd like.

If you need a working example, look at Billy and Adam, they have more cr@p talked about them than anybody I know, a lot of it untrue; do they go crying on boards like these moaning about what other people say?
Do they sh!t, they get on with things, make more money than God and are extremely powerful people in the industry; take a leaf out of their book Russ, stop moaning about people who you say are against you and get on with minding your business.

You also need to prioritize and try and grab some humility from somewhere; you, nor the PA are gonna lead the Paintball world into the paradise beyond no matter what you think. Your recent post whereby you implied that if UK players clicked on an option on this board they could then change the fate of world paintball was ridiculous mate, it was a plain lie and wholly misleading to the people you targeted.

If you wanna evolve then target the correct priority, and for you guys, it's not about creating socialist enterprises and hoping you are gonna create a bottom - up initiative, this is a pipe-dream mate and is only entertained by idealists and idiots or combinations thereof.
I’m all for giving the players and teams more say but we can’t lose sight of the real dynamics of our sport, it’s naive to go down this road where you give players false impressions.
Your first priority is to align yourself with the Millennium, like it or not, this is what you have to do; if you choose to go maverick then you will just continue the path you are now on, which is going exactly where Russ?
Where has the PA really gone in the last few years?
I have always said that change (necessary change) will come from a top-down initiative, nothing has changed mate, it can only happen this way no matter how many red books are thrown across the pages of this forum.
Money and real power talk Russ and you ain't got enough of either (no disrespect mate, just an observation).

As I have hinted before, for you to get anywhere near the position you so crave, you have to play the game of politics and you should be seeking opinion and agreement not from the players but from the industry and this has always been your (the PA's) problem, negotiating the art of people politics.
Russ, you been in this game long enough to know, 'it's not what you know but who', this sounds like a pretty facile remark but it hides a more profound state of affairs when you ponder its real significance in our sport.
From what I hear, you guys run a pretty good series, no better, no worse than Wendy’s or Sid’s.
I will say however, there is slightly more controversy surrounding teams and the way they believe they have been treated than other leagues but hey, none of us are perfect.

When you guys threatened to start suing teams was an indicator of how you may have lost sight of what it’s all about and your recent post where you erroneously empower the paintball populace like I mentioned before don’t do you guys any favours at all.
It all smacks of arrogance and detachment and that’s the last thing you need when trying to run a league and become a big player.
I think the base ideas you have are pretty good but as I have said to you and others before, it’s the way you go about them mate.
Look for friends and cultivate them rather than make a habit of continually going on about your perceived enemies.