UK Disgrace

[duffistuta]

Thats a low blow Duff. I get the point your making, but it's a bit heavy handed isn't it?

IMO - and ban me if you want, but it's that kind of sensitivity that makes all the politics and Ego's in paintball so harmfull. - This is no attack on you Duff, I've been an avid fan of your posts for years - your a cut above in terms of your point of view on most things, but that action in terms of this thread just for mentioning your rival magazine............

It's got nothing to do with rival magazines mate, it was purely to prove a point that we do offer a free service that people in the UK take advantage of. It was about him biting the hand that feeds.

I haven't banned Menace, I will not be removing any more of his threads. Was I heavy handed? Absolutely - sometimes it's the only thing that works because, frankly, the amount of ill-conceived rhetoric and flawed logic that comes back in Menace's posts suggests that it's the only thing that he'll understand.

 

[Robbo]

Thats a low blow Duff. I get the point your making, but it's a bit heavy handed isn't it?

IMO - and ban me if you want, but it's that kind of sensitivity that makes all the politics and Ego's in paintball so harmfull. - This is no attack on you Duff, I've been an avid fan of your posts for years - your a cut above in terms of your point of view on most things, but that action in terms of this thread just for mentioning your rival magazine............

Pesty, I doubt very much whether Duff will ban u and I will say this much, there has been soo much going on behind the scenes with this one that you are blissfully unaware of and if you trust my word, and I hope you do, Duff is 100% justified in taking the stance he did and continues to do.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

YA know what amazes me, when you mention the response your average punter displays when confronted with tourney ball, I have witnessed this sooooo many times and I am sure many site owners have done before and yet the penny still ceases to drop for them.

So Pete - what IS the penny?

What is their incentive - currently - to restructure their business to cater for tournament type players?

I think the average site owners looks at it this way:

Currently, I take about £40 net, from my average customer, who visits me twice per year - meaning £80 per year.

Convert that customer to tournament style ball - what do I get?

Not to mention, the investment a siteowner would need to make in field(s), equipment, training of employees, extra time spent per customer, etc. - all in the name of promoting tournament style paintball.

And, what is the upside really??

I am on your side m8, I think it would be absolutely wonderful if all sites promoted the sport I love - but from a business persepctive, I just don't really see what's in it for them?

We can talk all we want about how they "ought" to do more, but as long as no paintball companies are supplying the comprehensive kind of support and financial backing a normal rental site would need, to start earning money on tournament style ball, I just don't see it happening, apart from the few site owners that do it for the love of the game - and nothing else - and those are few and far between.

IF a clever paintball company were to come up with a workable concept for the sites, it would need to include (IMO):

- Financing an airball field over a period of time
- Financing mid/highend markers over a period of time
- Financing new goggles, loaders and uniforms over a period of time
- Providing training for the sites employees in how to run "commercial tournaments"
- Providing a shop interior
- Providing a shop inventory on commission basis
- Providing mid/high grade paint in small quantities
- Providing prices that DO compete with other prices in the marketplace
- Providing help advertising the concept to the local community (standardised ads/online advertising).
- Providing a national tournament organisation to be part of, like for instance "The NPS National" - run over 3 events at each 20 different venues, with the event winners qualifying for the "grand finale" - only open to teams based on sites' regular customers.
- ETC. (I probably forgot a whole bunch of things)

Just to give you an idea where my thoughts are heading.

Nick

 

[Robbo]

So Pete - what IS the penny?

What is their incentive - currently - to restructure their business to cater for tournament type players?
Nick

Nick, without wishing to extensively repeat myself I refer you back to the many times I have talked on this subject before....

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Nick, without wishing to extensively repeat myself I refer you back to the many times I have talked on this subject before....

I respectfully have to tell you, that walk on fees are not good business, ask any site owner

(walk on fee is what I have read you have used as an argument in previous debates).

If you mean something else, please elaborate.

Nick

 

[Robbo]

I respectfully have to tell you, that walk on fees are not good business, ask any site owner

(walk on fee is what I have read you have used as an argument in previous debates).

If you mean something else, please elaborate.

Nick

.....walk on fees aren't the central tenet of any stance I have taken mate so I dunno where u got that from ...

 

[MENACE]

Thats a low blow Duff. I get the point your making, but it's a bit heavy handed isn't it?

IMO - and ban me if you want, but it's that kind of sensitivity that makes all the politics and Ego's in paintball so harmfull. - This is no attack on you Duff, I've been an avid fan of your posts for years - your a cut above in terms of your point of view on most things, but that action in terms of this thread just for mentioning your rival magazine............

You are absolutely correct about the politics mate, they have just removed the Euro 5 Man thread which is totally ironic considering the point of this very thread So i will just leave it there as this is getting way out of hand

 

[Matski]

The repeat custom of people who organise large groups is very important to rec sites. For example some people repeatedly organise groups of friends to play every other month etc. Paying out 50 quid every once in a while for a 'great day out' is affordable and appeals. The revenue from a group of say 20 people is nearly 1000 pounds for some sites. You convert that keen group organiser into a rec tournament player and you lose that profit quality...he won't be interested in organising large parties to pay premium price for a day out in the woods anymore, and most of his friends will not want to invest in playing more seriously.

I guess it comes down to how attractive joe public finds playing rec ball every so often as opposed to playing walk-on regularly (+ investing in kit). The American market is culturally different and the same model may not fit the UK.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

.....walk on fees aren't the central tenet of any stance I have taken mate so I dunno where u got that from ...

So, what is it?

 

[Robbo]

You are absolutely correct about the politics mate, they have just removed the Euro 5 Man thread which is totally ironic considering the point of this very thread So i will just leave it there as this is getting way out of hand

Paul, don't try and pass this off as some minor indulgence on our part, you know full well whats gone down prior to this and I think we have been more than accomodating, more than fair and completely restrained.
Any other suggestion is lunacy !!!!!