UK Disgrace

[mikey601]

yea but only 5000, thats not very many at we should be looking at the places that have no sort of real paintball presence, say like N.Ireland, it might sound silly but if Dusty or any of the Escarmoche lads wanted to set a stall up in a town and show demos of what paintball is like i dont mind doing it, but would it really make a differnce? would people want to do something like that?

Would it do any harm? Would it be something posistive? Would it be a chance to show people a different side to paintball? you'll never know unless they know about it.

Would you ever like to do something you know nothing about?

 

[KitsuneAndy]

yea but only 5000, thats not very many at we should be looking at the places that have no sort of real paintball presence, say like N.Ireland, it might sound silly but if Dusty or any of the Escarmoche lads wanted to set a stall up in a town and show demos of what paintball is like i dont mind doing it, but would it really make a differnce? would people want to do something like that?

You're right, it's not a huge amount. But you start out with 5000. The shops that help fund it get contacted by people (we put a code on the handouts or something and ask people to quote it). They think "ooh hang on, we're actually making money out of this" they then consider funding more of the booklets.

I'm not talking about just promoting tourney ball, im talking about promoting all types of 'ball. I agree its going to be harder in places where rec ball doesnt exist but the only experience I have of paintball is my own. Where I found out about walk on's/tourney completely by chance. I bet there are hundreds if not thousands of other people in the same position, that would LOVE to play walk on's/scenario/tourney but they just dont know it exists.

 

[Cerberus]

Would you ever like to do something you know nothing about?

Thats how i started into paintball, I didnt have a fecking clue. When i contacted John at escarmouche i was expecting to run around with a tipman in my hand, I didnt know what a real paintball was like, jesus i only learned recently what "GAT" means and a year on i am shooting an SL66 :|

 

[KitsuneAndy]

...much as pissing in the sea would Andy......it needs clout to get this going, real clout and that sorta clout, both financial and expertise, is wholly within the domain of the corporates.

But it's somewhere to start from Pete.

Not everyone has your experience of the business side of paintball or has seen how it works in other countries. While it gives you the advantage of knowing what things *could* (or *should*) be like I think in situations like this it can be to your disadvantage. (I don't mean this as a bad thing, and hope my explanation of what I mean is about to make sense, no offence intented in any case!)

You see the vast difference in the levels of the business and the quality of the players between the UK and the States and obviously think that unless something drastic happens it's never going to change.

However, we see a growing sport that a lot of people love and that some people are prepared to work at and try to promote and make bigger. We can't see the big picture of international paintball, we only see the UK scene. But we want to see the UK scene grow.

Take a step back Pete, forget about the gap between us and the US. There are things we can do to make our scene grow, I'm not stupid enough to think we can suddenly make our sport as big as it is elsewhere. I'm not talking about suddenly increasing the amount of players we have tenfold. I'm just talking about doing something, anything, that has a chance of getting more people involved.

I just think that sometimes if you look at the big picture it can seem a bit hopeless and in those occasions you have to come closer in, forget about elsewhere for a while and just take a look at our own market.

 

[Raffles]

...much as pissing in the sea would Andy......

I don't mind pissing in the sea - even if it only gets one more player involved - it's a start.

...it needs clout to get this going, real clout and that sorta clout, both financial and expertise, is wholly within the domain of the corporates.

QFT! But unless someone contacts those corporates in the first place...

 

[Game]

well on a positive note the new supair field is on snetterton market and will have several thousand people walk past it every sunday so at least its in the face of the public and anyone can watch

so if they get the pricing right ball in norfolk should benifit greatly and you could see a sharp rise in the number of teams from this area

 

[Robbo]

But it's somewhere to start from Pete.

Not everyone has your experience of the business side of paintball or has seen how it works in other countries. While it gives you the advantage of knowing what things *could* (or *should*) be like I think in situations like this it can be to your disadvantage. (I don't mean this as a bad thing, and hope my explanation of what I mean is about to make sense, no offence intented in any case!)

You see the vast difference in the levels of the business and the quality of the players between the UK and the States and obviously think that unless something drastic happens it's never going to change.

However, we see a growing sport that a lot of people love and that some people are prepared to work at and try to promote and make bigger. We can't see the big picture of international paintball, we only see the UK scene. But we want to see the UK scene grow.

Take a step back Pete, forget about the gap between us and the US. There are things we can do to make our scene grow, I'm not stupid enough to think we can suddenly make our sport as big as it is elsewhere. I'm not talking about suddenly increasing the amount of players we have tenfold. I'm just talking about doing something, anything, that has a chance of getting more people involved.

I just think that sometimes if you look at the big picture it can seem a bit hopeless and in those occasions you have to come closer in, forget about elsewhere for a while and just take a look at our own market.

If by taking a step back I lose sight of the real nature of the problem, which will inevitably happen, then I see no purpose in pursuing any other perspective other than the one I am taking now.
It just makes no sense to distance myself because whilst your words 'seem' to sound reasonable, the fact of the matter is, they make no real sense mate (not disrespecting you whatsoever).

The position I am in is a lucky one and affords me the advantage of meeting and talking to many of the people in the know, and these people cover the entire spectrum of our Paintball community.
Now if you feel your relatively uninformed position gives you an advantage in analyzing this situation then I am interested to listen to any rationale that you think supports that.
I'm afraid the 'wood for the trees' platitude won't wash in this case Andy.

We cannot, as you advise, look at ourself in isolation, it makes no sense to do that whatsoever because only by looking at what works in other places can we apply that knowledge elsewhere.

We look at the US and see what's possible, we look at Germany and see what's necessary....and then we look at ourselves to see what needs to be done ... it's called comparative analysis and pervades sciences, businesses and almost every human endeavour imaginable.
Comparative analysis is an integral part of any progressive pursuit and thus CANNOT be ignored for the sake of a throw-away line in a post on a paintball forum.
Asking me to take a step back etc is just a meaningless cliché.
I do appreciate some of the things you say and in another context they might have some merit but I'm afraid this is one occasion where grasping the bigger picture and being informed helps get a real handle on what needs to be done and ensures I don't come up with a bunch of idealistic plans of action that have no real chance of achieving what we all want.
Yes, of course taking one step gets us further down the road, and pissing in the sea will raise the level but we need to develop a plan of action that gets results quicker than this because we haven't got the luxury of millions of years to make this journey.

And you tell me us players can make a difference, really?
Well I been banging this drum of indifference for about a year now on these forums, highlighting problems, coming up with suggestions and look where it's got us.....20 odd teams thus far in Campaign !!!!!
That just about says it all Andy !!!!

But I do concede there is a negative tone to all this and we do need some positivism if only to redress the balance and maybes we do need to take that first step somewhere but let's make sure that first step is in the right direction.

 

[Sid_Clan]

Okay, well I as a site owner spend my day in the safe area talking about the team, my marshals wear custom REF tops promoting the Clan Paintball Team as most of them are players, they wear tournament pants, masks and gloves. I walk around with my mobile phone showing customers footage of Tournament Paintball....what do I get 100% of the time as a response from customers??

"Wow....thats looks amazing, I thought paintball was only played in the woods"

So, I have banners round my site that I get from suppliers, RPS, NPS etc, but they are either logos or rambo BT markers. Other banners I have are done in house, using photos of my players, my canteen has about 15 laminated photos of Clan players in action, I promote it, talk about it, encourage people to try it, but it's the same old same old, take a horse to water $hit.

So, we want to make a start, okay Robbo, Speak to PGI,come up with a Slogan, you know, Paintball is not all about the woods or something, put together a good size banner with tournament photos on it, you know the type. Good Quality Banner that site owners can use to advertise the other side of paintball. Have a footnote, for more information about Tournament Paintball, local teams etc contact site manager....if we have 100 people a week through a site and only 10% of them ask about the banner and more interest in tournament, and from that only 30% actually start playing tournaments that means we can have 3 players per week from each site coming into tournament paintball, and thats better than nothing. The banner will get PGI advertising on the site, it can be used to promote paintball on Rec-Sites and it means PGI are spearheading the improvement and quality of tournament players being converted from Rec-Ball to Tournament.....acheivable, I think so...but, we need someone to take charge, yes Robbo you have done alot for the Sport and your right, why should you do more, but do you honestly think anyone else will??

I for one would have no objections at all to having a colouful banner or 10 around my site and I would pay for it, it promotes paintball, the sport and PGI, so, for the price of a banner run you could have sites up and down the Country promoting this, tie it in with Eclipse, UK's biggest Tournament Paintball Equipment Supplier, have web addresses, photos, everything, bang it on site and see how it goes. No point having banners on the site with RPS, NPS, V Force, Eclipse.....joe bloggs punter has no idea what they are, you bang upa banner with photos and they will take interest.

My 2p worth, we can't change anything through words mate, but we can with actions....

100% Support from me....and for the price of a beer at Campaign

Sid

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

And a few PGI's lying about for peeps to read?

 

[Sid_Clan]

And a few PGI's lying about for peeps to read?

I'm not saying PGI should give site owners loads of free stuff mark or indeed foot the bill, but, for example, are there old issues of PGI that get binned, or stuff, is it possible for site owners to become part of a PGI network for actively promoting paintball?

I know we got a couple of boxes of AN Other magazing, banged them on the site for customers to read during lunch and stuff, problem was Rec-Ball and Scenario were promoted big time in this particular magazine....where as PGI is all tournament. So, PGI network sites, promoting paintball.....it's a start right?

Sid