UK Disgrace

[Robbo]

We can't do anything if 'We' means us players.

Nick, whilst upholding his permanent state of contrariness has some of the answer but i fail to see how you can ignore the site owners culpability in favour of laying the blame at the feet of people like Dave YB, Ceranski and Avery (the industry).
It is these very guys who are coming up with a blueprint for our site owners to try and follow.
No doubt Nick will follow a convoluted road to try and convince me of the veracity of his point of view but I'm afraid once again, it won't cut much ice with me as my opinion was moulded after talking to many people in our industry (inc those 3 above) and my direct knowledge of a lot of our site owners.

It is true we would need the industry's help but the reason we are in the state we are in is not because of the industry because the conduit for the industry products has to be the site owners in any primary phase of paintball marketing.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Ah, but Pete - we are talking about two different things here.

I do not expect Dave to go around the UK convincing site owners they should start focussing on high level players.

What I DO expect, is that a company like DYE has a strategy for how site owners can make money by being affiliated with DYE - and that the DYE employes in the UK actively sells that solution to the site owners.

We all know that the majority of paintball sites are small "mom and pops" businesses, and they simply do not have the tools to come up with a sophisticated long term strategy, the finances to implement it, and often no inclination to do it either.... and this is where industry comes in.

All your preconceived notions that I am wrong are fine - even if you haven't heard what I had to say yet.... but if you seriously believe a small time site owner should, out of the goodness of his heart, put money and energy into creating tournament players.... with no visible upside other than a few quid in walk on fee here and there... then you are flat out wrong, and expect too much of people that have no real interest in how british tournament ball is doing.

Look at it this way: How big a percentage of the site owners in the UK have a real interest in tournament ball?

I'll bet you that it is closer to 20% than 50%.... and if you go by "do it for the sport" alone, then - at best - you convince 20% of your sites to do something that benefits tournament ball.

If on the other hand, industry is able to support all the sites in creating a viable and sustainable income stream through tournament players - then you have a chance of turning the whole market around - and THAT my friend, is where it is at.

Why am I interested?? - because if industry gets it act together, it will not only benefit the UK paintball scene - but all the scenes that are struggling, including my own.

Golf and Bowling are sterling examples of how industry could - and should - support the paintball sites.... and it surprises me that not a single company has yet realised there is a big market to be had, and a first move advantage that would create brand loyalty with countless new players.

Nick

P.S. - My "permanent state of contrariness" only remains permanent, as long as people are wrong

 

[Robbo]

Ah, but Pete - we are talking about two different things here.

I do not expect Dave to go around the UK convincing site owners they should start focussing on high level players.

What I DO expect, is that a company like DYE has a strategy for how site owners can make money by being affiliated with DYE - and that the DYE employes in the UK actively sells that solution to the site owners.

We all know that the majority of paintball sites are small "mom and pops" businesses, and they simply do not have the tools to come up with a sophisticated long term strategy, the finances to implement it, and often no inclination to do it either.... and this is where industry comes in.

All your preconceived notions that I am wrong are fine - even if you haven't heard what I had to say yet.... but if you seriously believe a small time site owner should, out of the goodness of his heart, put money and energy into creating tournament players.... with no visible upside other than a few quid in walk on fee here and there... then you are flat out wrong, and expect too much of people that have no real interest in how british tournament ball is doing.

Look at it this way: How big a percentage of the site owners in the UK have a real interest in tournament ball?

I'll bet you that it is closer to 20% than 50%.... and if you go by "do it for the sport" alone, then - at best - you convince 20% of your sites to do something that benefits tournament ball.

If on the other hand, industry is able to support all the sites in creating a viable and sustainable income stream through tournament players - then you have a chance of turning the whole market around - and THAT my friend, is where it is at.

Why am I interested?? - because if industry gets it act together, it will not only benefit the UK paintball scene - but all the scenes that are struggling, including my own.

Golf and Bowling are sterling examples of how industry could - and should - support the paintball sites.... and it surprises me that not a single company has yet realised there is a big market to be had, and a first move advantage that would create brand loyalty with countless new players.

Nick

P.S. - My "permanent state of contrariness" only remains permanent, as long as people are wrong

I don't have any preconceived ideas that you are wrong mate, that I promise, well not until I start reading what you have written I don't

Anyway, as for your idea, it has merit, a lot of merit, so much merit in fact that people like NPS and co do have a strategy that they do offer to site owners and I know for a fact Avery and Ceranski / Piper did put forward certain models of business operations to some of our site owners when they came over to try and stimulate the very market I am talking about here but I'm afraid these site owners of ours did not provide a fertile enough ground for such enterprising ideas.

I will reuse an old adage because it is wholly appropriate when trying to describe the indifference and inaction of the majority of our site owners, 'you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'.
That just about sums it up mate for me.

Addendum : Nick, whilst I disagree with your analysis as to why we are in the state we are, I do agree however that the industry is now the prime component if we are to move this forward but this a default position because we cannot rely on the sites to market tourney ball.

I think we ain't too far apart on this really and the points where we differ are academic because it's to do with the past and what we need is in the future.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

so much merit in fact that people like NPS and co do have a strategy that they do offer to site owners

I know they do - NPS is a great company, which I why I did not use them as an example.

I think they are leading the way, but still some way away from what is desired.

I think site owners need complete solutions, including an airball field, new guns, uniforms, goggles, loaders, a shop interior, shop inventory, financing, a marketing plan, strict guidelines for implementation and execution, etc. - which is still a stretch for most paintball companies.

Paintball industry should approach the subject mush like a franchise operation, if they were to get fields on board.

I would recommend they try it with one or two trusted customers, and see how far it brings them

Nick

 

[Robbo]

I know they do - NPS is a great company, which I why I did not use them as an example.

I think they are leading the way, but still some way away from what is desired.

I think site owners need complete solutions, including an airball field, new guns, uniforms, goggles, loaders, a shop interior, shop inventory, financing, a marketing plan, strict guidelines for implementation and execution, etc. - which is still a stretch for most paintball companies.

Paintball industry should approach the subject mush like a franchise operation, if they were to get fields on board.

I would recommend they try it with one or two trusted customers, and see how far it brings them

Nick

I think you'll find PMI have a similar strategic approach in developing site business Nick with both those guys not having too much success in changing people's approaches over here.
Dye obviously are not really in the site business but they can see the glaring disparity between US site owners and our guys.
All in all mate, it doesn't really paint an optimistic picture with the tragic irony being, the most marketable product paintball has ever played host to (tourney ball) is being ignored in favour of promoting Rambo-ball

 

[Raffles]

...If the paintball industry currently isn't going out its way to provide this, then maybe we should approach one or two of the non blinkered members of industry and start something that others will follow.

Amen - and hopefully the youth tournament/fun-day will go some way towards this (I am already looking at the likes of McDonalds - imagine that big giant yellow M as a centre ).

I have been harping on about this for ages - here's hoping 'outsiders' pick up on the idea as the 'paintball giants' don't seem too interested so far (and it's their customers of the future that will be there!),

*shameless plug and niggle over*

 

[Game]

Amen - and hopefully the youth tournament/fun-day will go some way towards this (I am already looking at the likes of McDonalds - imagine that big giant yellow M as a centre ).

I have been harping on about this for ages - here's hoping 'outsiders' pick up on the idea as the 'paintball giants' don't seem too interested so far (and it's their customers of the future that will be there!),

*shameless plug and niggle over*

have to agree the only real way any sport moves on is when outside interests start to invest in the sport

Giant redbull can supair bunkers for the win

 

[KitsuneAndy]

We can't do anything if 'We' means us players.

I disagree with you there Pete.

We players may not be able to do everything that is required to raise the profile of paintball here, but we can do a lot.

 

[Mario]

Amen - and hopefully the youth tournament/fun-day will go some way towards this (I am already looking at the likes of McDonalds - imagine that big giant yellow M as a centre ).

I have been harping on about this for ages - here's hoping 'outsiders' pick up on the idea as the 'paintball giants' don't seem too interested so far (and it's their customers of the future that will be there!),

*shameless plug and niggle over*

Whilst paintball remains the most ridiculously ungoverned sport, constantly in a state of shambles with people trying to grab their small and insignifigant piece of the pie whilst stabbing their colleagues and friends in the back, outside sponsorship will NOT happen.

Fact.

Even then it would take a few years for this acceptable behaviour to be seen in any way professional. To be honest, i can't ever see it happening. People are just too fu*king selfish.

 

[Raffles]

That's nice and optimistic Chris .

The idea is that 'outsiders' don't get to know about the sh1t already going on with the so-called 'high-ups'.

All they see is a fun day out for all the family - with tournament paintball as the centre piece.

If no-one tells Ronald McDonald about all the back-stabbing and in-fighting between certain factions - then how is he going to know?

Now, I am not naive enough to not expect them to do some sort of research - but who, from the paintball fraternity, is going to turn around and tell them of it?

The ONLY way to find out if I/we can generate outside interest - is to try it! Either that, or we just all pack away our paintball gear now and forget it ever happened.

I, for one, will not let the paintball disease known as 'apathy' deter me on this one.