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Ton Ton's above the law?

Wadidiz

EnHaNcE tHa TrAnCe
Jul 9, 2002
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Steve

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I disagree with splitting up judging teams.

You take away the pride of a job well done - and the possibility of earning respect by doing good as judges.

And - you too easily give teams the chance of saying it was the judges from the other team that was to blame.

I would much rather see accountability - and then give each team motivation to live up to that !

Nick
First off, Nick, this isn't the most important point. Head judges on each field is by far the most important idea here.

But, I still think splitting teams into two is good also.

I understand that it is less "fun". But this is business and it works well from my experience judging two World Cups and at Huntington Beach. And the team pride thing carries over very well even when there is half of the team on two different fields.

The blame-factor is less when there is not one particular team to identify with a certain field. It is also easier for the "boss" to establish authority and when it is a mixed group.

That's my take on it.

STeve
 
Splitting up the teams will not change much.

Steve, of course you thought that it worked well in HB - you guys had a group of refs who where treated properly (PAID) and you had no real bad blood or "payback" with any of the teams there.

BUT there was a hell of a lot of bitching from U.S. teams after both HB & Vegas saying that the Euro refs where trying to screw them.

Splitting up teams is a short-sighted attempt to fix the problem, why? Good reffing teams - Joy, Ducklings etc. - when split up do not become twice as effective - if anything there is a decrease in their effectivity when they have to cover for others. Good reffing crews work well together - that is why they are good. Hell the Ducklings argue more with each other about being in the right position, making the right call or moving quick enough - than we do with the teams we ref. I think the same goes for any good reffing crew - they care about what they do.

As far as stopping bias - all it takes is one DUMBASS to screw everything up - not a whole crew.


goose
 

Ralph

BAD TO THE BONE
When i saw the title of the thread,i thought Mmmmm.......i'll leave that one well alone but having seen the heavey weights that have joined in,with various observations. Stuff it, here's my five euro's worth.

If i wanted to pay a load of alchy/junkies to marshal you could find legions of them in any city in any country in the world at about 2am. If the organisers don't get a grip on the state of the marshals then chaos will ensue. I pay to play and that includes being marshaled soberly.

As for Ton Tons, since time began all good teams have sh*t thrown at them. Some of it sticks some of it don't and if you throw enough. Well you get the picture:eek:

As Robbo said you can only say what know for definate, not what you've heard. Of all the teams i've played against and it's been a few, ton tons are the ones that have riled me the most.

I was running the NWC am team and we played them 3 times in fairly quick succsession Game 1 in germany : 7- 1 defeat and i know i shot 2 of them but we were having a crap time and it was pissing down. So i let it go but did not forget it.

The next time we played them was at Mayhem another 7 -1 defeat and this time i was first out and was joined toot-sweet by 5 other team mates. The one remaining player was in a world of Sh1te with a lot pain coming his way. Valiantly (5seconds) he held out before being dumped on. Now here's the strange bit, his heroics had accounted for no less than 5 ton ton players who were in the dead zone before the flag was hung or indeed he was in the dead zone. I went ballistic at the judges for not pulling the players and then at the captain who just shrugged his shoulders which incensed me even more and i had to be dragged away foaming at the mouth:mad:

At the reseeding we been drawn against them again. This time i sit myself out but inform Pete Martin and the ton ton captain that if there is a repeat of the previous game all hell will be let loose.
The result is much the same a 7 -4 loss but at least they enter the dead zone at regular intervals.

The point is, that they are a good team and have no need to take the piss out of lesser teams in order to win. If they were playing their 'equals' i can see a few liberties being taken in order to get an edge but again it's down to the judges to be on the ball.

Still if you don't like what the ton tons do then freeze them out of the tournaments (if thats possble)
So hands up who's not going to Tolouse if they are there !!!!:D
ps i love france and the tolouse area and event is especially nice but
pp.s.
Many years ago at tolouse,we'd been F***ked over by the french marshals but had still got the semi's. Most people thought that we were making it up untill it started to happen to a very well known american team. The American captain asked "what was wrong with the French". I replied "fancy asking an englishman, we've been fighting them on and off for 5 hundred years:D
 

gaff

www.hired-killaz.com
Mar 12, 2003
654
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0
'in ya face baby!'
the bit that took the biscuit in Dam was when one of the marshalls (english - no names!) came up to me at the end of the game (which we lost) and said "i could have 1-4-1nd two of their players during that game but they told us before the game to remember that they will be marshalling against us in tournaments to come!"

those two 1-4-1's could have cost us making the finals, luckily it didnt, but you get my drift!

i have heard in the past that they play on all the time, but after seeing it first hand......well lets just say i would one for one 95% of all their muggings!

and as for the coaching in french from the sidelines, theirs another story!!
 

Red_Merkin

IMHO
Jul 9, 2001
1,418
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0
Montreal
and one of the TonTon's guns went full auto when he bumped the trigger on his way into the dead box, last game of the finals.
I saw it with my own eyes, and there were a bunch of people around who would have seen it too. Naughty boys, got lucky there was not judge about.



btw, well done storm. I don't know how you did it, but you guys were awesome to watch.
 

Joy_Robin

New Member
Jan 16, 2003
25
0
0
Stockholm
wdp-paintball.co.uk
Originally posted by goose

BUT there was a hell of a lot of bitching from U.S. teams after both HB & Vegas saying that the Euro refs where trying to screw them.
I reffed both, I had a whole story written down as a reply to this... But I erased it because I realized it was too dumb to even answer so I´ll just say: Whatever...
 
W

webby

Guest
Originally posted by Ralph
When i saw the title of the thread,i thought Mmmmm.......i'll leave that one well alone but having seen the heavey weights that have joined in,with various observations. Stuff it, here's my five euro's worth.

If i wanted to pay a load of alchy/junkies to marshal you could find legions of them in any city in any country in the world at about 2am. If the organisers don't get a grip on the state of the marshals then chaos will ensue. I pay to play and that includes being marshaled soberly.

As for Ton Tons, since time began all good teams have sh*t thrown at them. Some of it sticks some of it don't and if you throw enough. Well you get the picture:eek:

As Robbo said you can only say what know for definate, not what you've heard. Of all the teams i've played against and it's been a few, ton tons are the ones that have riled me the most.

I was running the NWC am team and we played them 3 times in fairly quick succsession Game 1 in germany : 7- 1 defeat and i know i shot 2 of them but we were having a crap time and it was pissing down. So i let it go but did not forget it.

The next time we played them was at Mayhem another 7 -1 defeat and this time i was first out and was joined toot-sweet by 5 other team mates. The one remaining player was in a world of Sh1te with a lot pain coming his way. Valiantly (5seconds) he held out before being dumped on. Now here's the strange bit, his heroics had accounted for no less than 5 ton ton players who were in the dead zone before the flag was hung or indeed he was in the dead zone. I went ballistic at the judges for not pulling the players and then at the captain who just shrugged his shoulders which incensed me even more and i had to be dragged away foaming at the mouth:mad:

At the reseeding we been drawn against them again. This time i sit myself out but inform Pete Martin and the ton ton captain that if there is a repeat of the previous game all hell will be let loose.
The result is much the same a 7 -4 loss but at least they enter the dead zone at regular intervals.

The point is, that they are a good team and have no need to take the piss out of lesser teams in order to win. If they were playing their 'equals' i can see a few liberties being taken in order to get an edge but again it's down to the judges to be on the ball.

Still if you don't like what the ton tons do then freeze them out of the tournaments (if thats possble)
So hands up who's not going to Tolouse if they are there !!!!:D
ps i love france and the tolouse area and event is especially nice but
pp.s.
Many years ago at tolouse,we'd been F***ked over by the french marshals but had still got the semi's. Most people thought that we were making it up untill it started to happen to a very well known american team. The American captain asked "what was wrong with the French". I replied "fancy asking an englishman, we've been fighting them on and off for 5 hundred years:D
I marshalled there years ago with 7 other british marshalls and since then we all have refused to marshall or play a tournement in France the french teams cheat and the french marshalls help them, so i can not see the point in playing in france i would rather flush my money down the drain.

The fun part was at the semi final no british marshalls were allowed to marshall so we all stood around and watched i can not remember the teams but one was british and the other was french, as we were watching we saw 2 french marshall in clear view wiped 2 of the french players, we all went mad and one of the british marshalls who used to play for dragon company years ago martin w ended knocking one of the marshalls out this happend all during the game and due to the cheating the british teal lost.

all i have to say dont trust THE FRENCH tHERE CHEATING *******S.