The Friday Poll: Markers, pistols, gats, nines, shootin' irons...

[JoseDominguez]

For our team name to be "ironic" I'd have to be against the word gun........ there ya go, otherwise, why'd you agree with gyroscope?

As for me defending myself...... I'm not, didn't intend to come across like that, I was just defending the use of certain words........... some people use them without being PC, that was my point. And it may come over that "every time I post" I'm defending myself........so I'll stop, carry on the discussion with everyone else who took it seriously.

That's going to be lonely, I thought we were having a pretty sensible discussion, didn't realise I was upsetting anyone.

And as for "am I behaving nicely?" well, "am I behaving abusively" should be more to the point..... if the rules ban swearing, what's the big deal? the rules ban playing on too, lots of players seem unable to stop that and should be penalised. I don't really see why banning swearing is a big issue, if someone really can't control themselves then should they be in control of a big cylinder of compressed gas? Some of my team mates swear, I do it myself...... we've had a formal warning, we are on top of it now, they don't like it, but they manage. I don't like having my sleeves rolled down, I never do it, in fact I hate it but I have to for tournaments...... it's uncomfortable but it's no big deal. I hate the rule about not looking out of the dead box, drives me nuts not knowing what's happening, worse when I pull off something cool and no one sees it. But it's no big deal, it's in the rules, we've all got a copy, they affect all of us the same way. I only play in two leagues, series 2k and the PA...... I know that the rules for both are evolving all the time, the ultimate ref is the same for both and a variety of things are being looked at..... personaly I hope the dead box thing is changed as I don't like it, I've expressed my views to them too. It might change, it might not. But I live in a country where a rapist just won seven million in the lottery, so I think we've got bigger problems.
And as far as I've seen, penalties for swearing haven't been draconian, they've been kept for loud, obvious outbursts, usualy when tempers have flared and refs have been yelled at (a yellow card in football) or for players yelling across the feild to keep moving. I also saw one when a team slaughtered the opposition with some blatant "running on" the flag hanger then stood about six yards off the beaten team, punched the air and yelled F@cking come on........ pretty disrespectful.

Anyway, if we want to put an end to all this politically correctness I'll make a start........ ****, ****.............. oh, hang on, I can't can I? why is that then?

 

[Gyroscope]

Well, we are just discussing rules and manners... no harm, no foul. It does sound like you are protesting a lot, but I believe you call things by the names you do out of custom, not political expedience, ok? We can leave that settled, I think.

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
.... if the rules ban swearing, what's the big deal? the rules ban playing on too, lots of players seem unable to stop that and should be penalised.

The difference is that swearing won't affect the game outcome, it affects the perception of the game (possibly) by spectators. Therefore, though it is a rule (and one I always strive to obey), it is a dumb rule.* Running through, on the other hand, has huge potential to change game outcomes.


* dumb rules: rules instituted to change the appearance of the game based on presenting a "designed atmosphere" rather than allowing the game to have whatever subculture developes naturally. Rules should govern things that matter to competition, not to thing that relate to style, impression, or political correctness. My opinion, of course, and not in reference to any poster or entity. This is an abstract, provisional attitude.

 

[Buddha 3]

Jose, mi amigo,

Don't for one moment think that I want you to shut up. Despite the aargh, I am enjoying this thread. I don't think there's any disrespect involved, we have not called eachother any names, and so far we have respected eachother's opinions.

As for you defending the use of certain words, like I said I have no problem with why you use those words, it is just the way you speak.

As for the "am I behaving nicely/abusively" issue, the point still stands. Players should be able to focus on their game, not ettiquette. Paintball is an adrenaline packed game, so tempers will flare in the heat of the moment, people will cuss profusely when getting a few balls extra when walking off the field.

I agree with you that the player that yelled "f*cking come one" was way out of line. He had no reason to do this, so should be penalised for his behavior. The other team would never have been penalised by me if they had thrown a few bad words the other way though. Any regular sport has something called unsportsmanlike conduct, which is meant to deal with situations like this.'

Being PC has it's time and place (dinner with the inlaws for example ), but slap bang in the middle of the game is not where it should be as important as some people make it to be. I think that you agree with that.

As for the argument that some people from the PCP (Politically Correct Posse, which does not seem to include you) use, that it is all being done to make paintball more spectator friendly, that is, in my opinion, a load of bull. I have made it my business to film paintball games, and I can tell you that it is in fact the flaring tempers, the playing on and the (rather justified) reactions to this behavior that make for entertaining viewing material. If paintball goed down the "Oh, I say, you have marked me rather splendidly on my goggles. Good show, chap." path, it will NEVER draw spectators, because that would make for an ultimately dull game. Throw in some prima donna behavior and you are on to something. This is what makes pro games so exciting. Sure, they are better players, but for the uninitiated the difference between the skill set of a pro and a novice can be extremely hard to tell. Bu the pros display plenty more prima donna attitudes, which makes for great entertainment. Everybody LOVES to hate Lasoya.
So any league that says that paintball will be more spectator friendly when it get sanitized, is shooting itself in the foot. Badly.

And that is what I wanted to talk about really, not the fact that someone says marker or gun, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[JoseDominguez]

I agree with pretty much all of that as for the swearing thing...... I've not really seen anyone penalised when they weren't yelling it, so I'm kind of biased..... it's always been justified so far, and been audible at a distance. Obviously if every single infringement was jumped on it would make the game unplayable, but yellling, aiming it at other players/refs..... no problem with that being stomped on. I don't think I'd agree if someone was penalised during a team talk..... I was going to say it wouldn't be fair to penalise someone for quietly swearing at their own stupidity as they walked off, or in anger for bonus balling....... but then again, they shouldn't be speaking at all if they are eliminated. Even if they are getting bonus balled. As for the arguments over "who was hit"..... marshalls decision is final, no amount of swearing is ever going to help....... but that's what the rules are for..... penalties for swearing that affect both teams equally. Swearing now has repercussions, but it won't stop completely...... so the "excitement" will still be there.

 

[Pump'n'Splat]

Just to bring the sense of "Joe public" into the field.

Every time I marshal our local site, the punters call the Markers "Guns" and their paint "Bullets"....No matter how much you correct them, or use the "industry terms" they will insist on using these terms.

At the end of every game, before goggles off, we ask the players to put their markers down on the ground...90% of the time they stand there with "guns" in hand as they have no idea what we mean by "marker".

Sure, if we had the same punters week in, week out and gave them a leaflet on the "sport" of paintball, explaining how it's not necessarily a wargame, then with time this would change....BUT, any casual recballer will still call this thing they have with a trigger, a barrel and which shoots projectiles; a gun.

To punters I call it a gun, when playing paintball as a sport amongst other paintball teams I call it a marker.

I don't really see the need to try an educate the casual player into the "non-threatening" term for a piece of equipment, because they already know that it's non-threatening provided they use it in a safe way, which is what the marshalls are there for, and why punters are at a controlled site and listening (we hope) to the safety rules and regs.

I mean, what did you own as a kid : A Water pistol or an Aquatic-Marker? A Spud Gun or a potato marker?

 

[FAMINE]

hmm, U mention americans not happy about being shot in the fanny??

Ive known a few yankee ladies, and they didnt seem to mind me shootin anywhere i liked

Besides,

Marker/gun is actually my baby
Paintballs are balls
and PC thoughts are just plain bollox

More nekkid women at events, I miss the old days with strippers, baby oil and root veggies

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by FAMINE

More nekkid women at events, I miss the old days with strippers, baby oil and root veggies

.................and 14" infinity barrels!!!

Paul

 

[johnmassive]

markers, pistols, gats, nines, shootin' irons...

Originally posted by Buddha 3

Is all this a good thing, or are we over sanitizing the game? Many of us keep talking about "paintball the sport", and compare us to other sports like soccer and a plethora of other teamsports. However, a different line of thinking compares paintball more to the likes of skateboarding and it's accompanying subculture. Go to any major paintball event, and you'd see more bad haircuts and regrettable tattoos than at a punk convention. Many players walk around the field smoking (often something other than tobacco), swigging brews is common, and so on.

what you have typed here is essentially the difference between a professional football(er) and a sunday league(r) but they have a samiliarity which is - at any such event, for any sport, at any level, you get a mix of fans, officials, players, sponsors who have to either act pc on their own accord or in accordance to the rules/their postion, or people who can choose and act as they will.

Originally posted by Buddha 3

What I would like to know is this: Is paintball potentially a true mainstream sport, and as such we should keep in mind that we must, at least to the outside world, show a game that is good, clean and wholesome? Or will we always remain a fringe sport with only marginal TV and mass media coverage, heeped amongst the so called extreme sports?

Feel free to add your comments, but please have something to add, rather than pointless remarks.

i think that yes pb is potentially a true mainstream sport, whose representitives therefore have to act accordingly - and this means acting sportsman like. its a whole different topic on what or what doesnt constitute as appropiate or sportsman behavour which i'll make clearer later.

but just because it is/will become or even never becomes a mainstream sport doesnt mean you can't play it at grass roots where certain "silly" rules are disregarded, pc is unexistent or whatever rocks your boat. afterall is it actaully mainstream now, the answer in all honesty has to be no. but still there are a lot or ballers who are acting pc without the money making machine moving their lips orville style and their are ballers who are not pc, even though the same money making machine are trying to persuade them to be.

does it really matter if it remains a fringe sport? to me it doesnt. would the crossover from fringe to main make me act differently? that depends if i have too, if i do, then i will..

Originally posted by Buddha 3
PS This thread was not posted to ridicule the PC or the non PC.

its an internt forum, of course someone is going to feel ridiculed eventaully down the line. they will see it from their own perspective and come to their own conclusions. this is why it would be so hard to agree on what is/isnt appropiate behavior, language or conduct. people may say swearing, some no swearing, others swearing but not towards a person, some only swearing at people, others may not care either way.

at the end of the day things just seem to evolve and you live with it.

 

[Victor six]

With reference to the poll at the top of the thread:

a) I use my marker to shoot paintballs at the opposing team

b) And I use my gat to pop caps at those who diss me an' my crew.

I do a) at the weekend; I do b) at any time.

It's a tough life up here in the hills... gimme Compton any day!

 

[mad dog]

Anyone seen the game of Dodgeball on sky, we need an arena set below the crowd with characters pleasing to the public and the TV.

A dead zone as normal but with a target that when lit up and hit by a player, it is then possible the last player releases the dead players to continue the game. (wiped off of coarse) this may also increase the game time which would be better for the TV.

I'm not saying do this example but one of what the public see's us as being.

Education and media hype is what it will take, the good thing is over the last year we have driven points of view across to its dead and buried nearly.

Here is an idea, if everyplayer that exists donates some money for the biggest tounament ever held on the planet, set it in somewhere like birmingham in the biggest centre indoor of coarse then the rest will come.

Why should we have to pay for TV to come to us when they will be chasing us to get there before each other.

Its called education and the numbers game as said before.

The more people that go the more advertisers will turn up, hense lots of pretty banners and shiny stuff at the end to fight for if you win.

As for guns or markers, if done properly then we call them markers and the crowd will follow hopefully.

The event would look crazy and imagine the crowds with team boards holding them up for you, shouting with those big waving hands and clapping sticks with team names on .

Need I continue, far fetched maybe. No I dont think so?

Just we can sit all day discussing it or change it possibly in one full swoop and hit the media with the biggest sports event ever yet. (That they hav'nt seen before)

Just wish I had a Million to produce it.

My point of view. Sorry.

This is what paintball should be!
Bring in the crowds and the money will follow.....
Then we become competitive and the bitching on the forums gets to the newspapers.
Could you handle being slagged off by the mirror or the sun I ask you.

Back to the dream world.