Tampa brief on the road to Connecticut

[MissyQ]

I believe it was the reluctance to ajudicate from the reffing tower that was the thing that finally nailed it. Many of the infringements on the NPPL field were clearly visible from the reffing tower, and numerous requests/demands for Dan to be in the tower making the tricky calls were ignored.

Shamu is right of course. One sacrificial lamb is not going to make a difference, although I do feel that this particular rolling head was due not so much to the way he reffed, more the way he dealt with legitimate complaints from teams with legitimate issues, who were able to directly quote the rule-book to back up said complaints.
I would like to see bonuses for good reffing. I think refs have to be rewarded for doing a good job. Incentives are necessary to motivate refs into working hard at their jobs. Shouldn't be the case, but I feel that it is.
I also want to see Chuck on the field, mixing it up with his refs and making calls in situations like the XSV/Rage game, which he witnessed, and yet declined to get involved in to make the correct decision, which would have meant over-ruling the refs in question.
I am a big supporter of the refs, as most know, as I often feel they are berated unfairly, as the players are so scandalously dishonest it is a herculean task to administer the rules fairly. However, there is little support I can offer thejm after Tampa. They were terrible, and I hope they realise it.

 

[Chicago]

When you say "they" in terms of the refs, who do you mean? How many of the refs at Tampa had ever reffed a NPPL tournament before? Seems to me you can say the refs at Tampa sucked without saying anything about most of the refs at previous NPPL events since they're probably almost completely different.

I do disagree on the Chuck thing though - Chuck should definitely NOT make ANY calls on the field unless he's going to spend the whole day on that field. The problem isn't that you don't have people there to overrule the refs, the problem is the FREQUENCY with which the refs are wrong in the first place. Trying to fix that by overturning calls just makes it worse.

Reffing is a one-shot type deal. You make the call, and that's the call. If the call is screwed up, oh well, you got a bad call. The only thing worse than occasionally getting a bad call is having calls overruled by administrative guys who may or may not be there. The exeption to this is ADMINISTRATIVE calls - errors in scoring, if a ref misapplies the rule about hangs going to the other team if the last player on a team is eliminated by penalty, etc - things where the game is over and you're talking about application of rules as opposed to officiating the events that happened.

You MUST back up the calls that the officials make on the field. If your refs are making too many bad calls, the problem is you have bad refs, and you need to fix that by hiring good refs, not by making bad rules that let administrative guys come in and muddy the waters even more.

 

[shamu]

I also want to see Chuck on the field, mixing it up with his refs and making calls in situations like the XSV/Rage game, which he witnessed, and yet declined to get involved in to make the correct decision, which would have meant over-ruling the refs in question.

to be blunt - I think that's the worst thing you can do. You need Chuck and Shawn less involved in the PRO, not more. They have neither the experience nor the aptitude to run a professional reffing organization. There are a number of specific examples i could give you where they made arbitrary decisions pertaining to reffing that produced negative results.

Tower judging vs field judging? At that point you're just putting a band-aid on arterial bleeding. The real damage is done in the weeks leading up to the event, like hiring and training refs, making schedules, organizing the ref and captains meetings.

To their way of thinking, reffing is a simple job and any moron can do it. I've been told repeatedly that it's a great honor to ref an NPPL event. While at the same time, Chuck has repeatedly shown a blatant disregard for the guys in striped shirts. Being an NPPL ref may have been an honor 2 years ago but that's no longer true. I'm sorry, but paying $35 for the "privelege" of working 12 - 14 hours, with neither support nor appreciation from the league is not the type of "privelege" I want.


You want to know what the sad part is? Many of the experienced guys would come back if the league would fix some of the problems.

Edit - Missy, I know you're behind the refs. Don't think it's not appreciated.

 

[MissyQ]

Shamu/Chicago, I take on board what you are saying about Chuck, and I understand. Perhaps it is not a good idea, but I feel ANY idea's at this stage should be entertained at least.
I think, Shamu, that you should contact me and give me input from your side. The experienced refs are needed more than ever. More refs are needed, but what is needed most of all is a better dialogue between the refs and the people that have the capability to help them. The removal of Dan could help or hinder this, I am not sure which yet, but it will only help if someone steps up from that side.

I am pushing Ron K all the way to join as NPPL head judge, as I still believe he is the perfect person for the role, but his involvement with 3 pro teams in the 18 makes that impossible at the moment.

Talking about it here is redundant, however entertaining it may be. I believe action has to be taken and in order for there to be marked improvement in Boston talking has to happen right now at the right level. The NPPL know the reffing was crap, so you will not have to deal with denial. While I am not in any way connected with NPPL reffing, I do intend to make a lot of noise with the people that are, in my own attempt to better things.

Ref the tower judging - Either I was able to see all the infringements from the tower and they were invisible to the refs on the ground, or they saw it too. In believing the former I am able to give the refs more credit. If I believe the latter then the reffing was even worse than I thought, and even more severe action must be taken, as it is clear that the refs simply do not care that the rules are enforced.

 

[shamu]

Missy - hit me up with a PM. I'm more than willing to give my views on how I think the reffing can be improved. For what it's worth, I think Ron would make a great ref. I've been trying to bring him over to the dark side for the last two years

 

[Markie C]

Sorry if i am out of my depth here but the PSP gets some of the best ref's from here in the UK and from what the pro's have said to its some of the best reffing they have seen maybe this is a good idea ?

 

[Chicago]

The thing is, this did not just happen overnight. The ****ty reffing at Tampa can not be blamed on one person, one event, or one policy - it is the result of months if not years of continually lessening regard for the refferees. The reffing in Tampa may have been horrid, but the reffing in HB was marginal at best, and Miami not much better. This has been a steady, extended decline since the high point just after the split in 2003.

That things have continued to get worse and worse for two to three years means one of two things is true:

- NPPL is so incompetent that they just did not see the massive referee turnover and other issues that have gotten to them to this point
- NPPL did see it, but just didn't care enough, or entirely lacked the ability, to do anything about it

How could SOMEBODY at NPPL not notice that hydrating your referees with hose water is a BAD IDEA? How could that not have been fixed for Tampa? How has NPPL been apparently oblivious to the fact that their "referee certification class" is little more than a rubber stamp? Who could have POSSIBLY thought that making refs who got certified last year pay to get certified again this year was anything other than MONUMENTALLY STUPID?

I just don't see how any change short of "NPPL is no longer responsible for refs" is going to solve the reffing problem. Take the ref budget, make sure it's big enough, and give it no-strings-attached to somebody qualified, both administratively and as an official, to get the job done, and get out of their way.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Reffing is easily fixed.... but the problem is that it will be hugely expensive to do right.... and therein lies the rub

First of all, you need a lot more refs that you have, because one of the things that makes refs stop coming event after event, is that they work 12 hour days, with very few breaks - if any.... I think a reffing squad should get an hours break every 5 hours - at least.... and the best way to do it, is to have an entire extra squad that can take the place of the squad going on a break.

Secondly, you need to increase payment, so that refs actually think it is worth it... increase payment to a normal salary per hour, and you will see a lot more refs return.

Third, make sure your head field refs are top refs, that have the ability and inclination to manage the refs on their field... and give them the power of a mid level manager to deduct payment or fire refs, if they are not up to scratch (this will require those refs have a great deal of integrity and social skills).

Fourth, require all refs to be at the venue latest at 1200 hours the day before the event, and spend every Thursday afternoon doing reffing training under the supervision of your ultimate and the head field refs.

Fifth, with all the above in place, you can start too weed out the refs that lack the skills or inclination to do the job well, and start to build a top notch reffing corps.

Nick

 

[Beaker]

What do NPPL refs currently get paid / given to ref?

 

[jotajotaZ]

What do NPPL refs currently get paid / given to ref?

It's said before in the thread. 35 US$/day