Solid balls in the UK....

[Skeet]

I dont think what a marker fires is going to breech the law...as long as it doesnt produce more than 12ft/lbs of muzzle energy its ok..However, as has been said...if these are available..then there misuse, may draw attention too us, which is not a good thing...
If these rubber balls are heavier...they will have a higher muzzle ENERGY when fired from a source that has been set up to fire paintballs at 300 fps....they will however, come out a great deal slower, therfore will travel less distance, with a more pronounced trajectory (ie.drop off much much quicker)...they will also decelerate much quicker...so the it may transpire that being hit by one of these at 30 feet, imparts less of an impact than a regular paintball would...
Its effective distance is greatly reduced...which kinda defeats the object of using them really...
I think the idea that the UKPSF should politely request that they not be imported to the UK is a good one...or at least make it known that we dont want them...
If something like this was imported by another paintball related company, that would look bad...on another point.....police can seize any weapon (air weapon for example) and test it with any ammunition they like that is available for that weapon....It used to be that, you could be shoooting your air rifle perfectly legally, if the police seized, they could test it with pellets that you werent using (Prometheus was the one) and if it went over the the legal limit, your buggered; technicaly....so if "ammunition" other than regular paintballs is available, this means that the police can test markers with them....with the above results..

 

[JonnyB]

sorry mate, the "Damn you Fat Bob" was a joke, I didnt mean for anyone to take offence.

 

[Hotpoint]

Originally posted by ollytheosteo
their legal status?
Paintball markers are not firearms because a firearm is defined in law as a "lethal barrelled weapon". Lethality is defined by the projectile's ability to cause a penetrating wound, and anything that can is a firearm

Unfortunately there is also Precedent (Case Law) on this which states that when the Firearms Acts say "lethal" it should also be taken to mean "potentially lethal"

Unfortunately "Potentially" is vague enough to probably drag us in if the courts decided to clobber us on that one since you can fire other ammunition from a marker

 

[Acidd_UK]

Originally posted by Skeetmaster
I dont think what a marker fires is going to breech the law...as long as it doesnt produce more than 12ft/lbs of muzzle energy its ok.
<snip>
If these rubber balls are heavier...they will have a higher muzzle velocity when fired from a source that has been set up to fire paintballs at 300 fps....they will however, come out a great deal slower, therfore will travel less distance, with a more pronounced trajectory (ie.drop off much much quicker)...they will also decelerate much quicker...so the it may transpire that being hit by one of these at 30 feet, imparts less of an impact than a regular paintball would...

Not entirely accurate I don't think. The muzzle velocity = the speed they are projected from the marker at. Now, assuming these rubber balls are heavier than normal paintballs, if you put a rubber ball through a marker set up to fire a paintball at 300fps, the rubber ball will come out at less than 300fps. However, by adjusting the marker's velocity adjuster as normal, you could then crank the rubber ball velocity up to (and over) 300fps.

I think the main problem comes because we are used to the 300fps rule and the 330fps (I think this is it) legal limit. However, these are based on using the 'average' weight of a paintball to calculate the muzzle energy in <foot lbs>. So from that point of view, I would have thought it would be sufficiant to weigh these rubber balls, and use their average weight to work out a new velocity limit in a similar way that regular paintballs have the 300/330fps tourney/legal limit.

From a legal point of view, I doubt (but would be interested to know if) UK law differentiates between a paintball and any other projectile - it wouldn't make much sence. A solid ball that weighs the same as a paintball will impart the same energy (pain/injury) into your body as a particularly hard paintball that bounces.

As for the difinition of lethality, I would think that putting a 300fps chronoed marker against someones unprotected eye and firing would almost certainly kill them. Does this make a paintball marker a lethal weapon? Only as much as a cricket bat or a tennis racket is, IMHO.

Discuss

 

[Skeet]

I meant to put Muzzle energy! Sorry mate my mistake i was tired got me energies mixed up with me velocitys.....Edited! You can see from what i wrote afterwards that they would come out slower and slow down quicker, that it was a typo...However, yep you got me!

 

[le-pig]

Originally posted by Hotpoint
Unfortunately there is also Precedent (Case Law) on this which states that when the Firearms Acts say "lethal" it should also be taken to mean "potentially lethal"

so is a carrot if applied wrongly ,ban them instead

 

[JoseDominguez]

yup, but you couldn't use a carrot as a substitute for an illegal fire arm...... you could however hold up a bank using a marker turned up to fire nylon/rubber balls at 440fps............ that's what we are risking. A paintball at top velocity is going to really hurt, but it will always come of second best against a person wearing goggles. We are of no interest to the police at the moment. As soon as they realise a marker can be put to this use......... goodbye. As far as they know, we can only fire paintballs. It's not a problem in the US, as they still have real guns and a different set of laws.
Over here......... how long until some pikey who's nicked an angel at campaign realises that for £20 worth of ammo he can have a weapon capable of downing a man at 40 yards? 200 rounds before a reload? and as far as the law is concerned not a firearm?
As I've said before, these rounds are used for prison control in the US, they work, 40 orange jump suit wearing high security prisoners were dropped by three guards firing rubber and pepper rounds into the crowd. This was from unmodified markers.

It's the thin end of the wedge, v-balls have to be fired from a "significantly reduced velocity".............. so what if someone forgets? what if he's got one in his feed neck?
As far as I'm concerned there should be nothing available to fire from a PAINTBALL marker except PAINTBALLS, the clue is in the name.

 

[Skeet]

Thats right...as I said once other ammunition is available..it opens us up to potential convictions...even if we have never seen these things...
It would be an idea to prevent them being imported...if the manufacturers are told it would make it illegal to use then...
Or maybe even try and get the authorities to ban the import of them..if we speak out about them first it goes for us...however it may be a bit dodgy to do that....
What is to be done...HOTPOINT?

 

[Acidd_UK]

Originally posted by Skeetmaster
I meant to put Muzzle energy! Sorry mate my mistake i was tired got me energies mixed up with me velocitys.....Edited! You can see from what i wrote afterwards that they would come out slower and slow down quicker, that it was a typo...However, yep you got me!

No problem, think we were driving at the same point anyway....

 

[Steve Hancock]

I hadn't heard about paintball guns being used for riot control but that shouldn't be confused with rubber bullets.

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
yup, but you couldn't use a carrot as a substitute for an illegal fire arm......

However if you did rob a bank with a carrot in your pocket, pretending it was a gun, you could still get done for armed robbery.

As Jose and many other people have said, as soon as paintball or paintball kit is seen as a problem we will be in trouble. The law could easily be interpreted against us. Same goes for carrots… possibly.