Yeah, I played for the Crusaders, amongst other teams. What team did you play for?
And the Bucs were indeed quite crap a few years back
And the Bucs were indeed quite crap a few years back
I guess this is as off topic as you can get.
I played for The Oslo Trolls, Turku Trojans (fin) and London Olympians.
I played for The Oslo Trolls, Turku Trojans (fin) and London Olympians.
Yeah, sorry for the threadjack people, feel free to ignore us...
London Olympians...Nice. I remember a few good games against them.
Let's hook up for some beers and swap stories that are only interesting to us at the next Millennium we're both at.
London Olympians...Nice. I remember a few good games against them.
Let's hook up for some beers and swap stories that are only interesting to us at the next Millennium we're both at.
Seems a crucial thing is whether we jump for the US model of Franchise teams that stay within a league regardless of results ..... or...... the Euro system used in Soccer etc where promotion/relegation occurs and teams get to a certain level on merit.
If you use the US Franchise/locked league for the EXL and promotion/relagetion for Div1/2/3 then it's kind of apples and oranges and if a team as Christian say "earns" their way to the top they have no where else to aim for unless they hope to get picked up as a unit for a franchise.
Personally including promotion/relegation into EXL seem:
A way that players in the lower leagues have legitimate reason for trying to progress their team
Means there is no need for a Draft system which adds all sorts of complications especially at this early stage of the "sport" of paintball
Gives the EXL validity for actually being the best of the best in Europe. The 8 have been selected for this year fine, but what's to say that Shocks new killa's don't work out or Ducklings loose players. If team X suck for a season and we have no draft system to help them out of it then they will loose their good players to other EXL teams further weakening the squad.
I would propose that the bottom 2 EXL spots after the season up for grabs. The bottom team is swapped with the Top ranking Premier league team and maybe have a play off between the 7th team and the 2nd ranked Prem team or swapping out whatever.
The US don't understand having a "true" league and Euroland doesn't understand a franchise system expect the few from each that follow a foreign sport.
If this is an EXL, then keep everything as it is, with only 8 Euro teams and include relegation for every level of the league.
If you use the US Franchise/locked league for the EXL and promotion/relagetion for Div1/2/3 then it's kind of apples and oranges and if a team as Christian say "earns" their way to the top they have no where else to aim for unless they hope to get picked up as a unit for a franchise.
Personally including promotion/relegation into EXL seem:
A way that players in the lower leagues have legitimate reason for trying to progress their team
Means there is no need for a Draft system which adds all sorts of complications especially at this early stage of the "sport" of paintball
Gives the EXL validity for actually being the best of the best in Europe. The 8 have been selected for this year fine, but what's to say that Shocks new killa's don't work out or Ducklings loose players. If team X suck for a season and we have no draft system to help them out of it then they will loose their good players to other EXL teams further weakening the squad.
I would propose that the bottom 2 EXL spots after the season up for grabs. The bottom team is swapped with the Top ranking Premier league team and maybe have a play off between the 7th team and the 2nd ranked Prem team or swapping out whatever.
The US don't understand having a "true" league and Euroland doesn't understand a franchise system expect the few from each that follow a foreign sport.
If this is an EXL, then keep everything as it is, with only 8 Euro teams and include relegation for every level of the league.
There are a few things people are forgetting...
1) The 8 team EXL is only the plan for NEXT year. Who knows what time will bring - so any judgements on the future of the NXL, based on what we know now are a little hasty. Hell it could end up being a 20 team/15 tournament league - we just don't know.
2) Has anyone thought of what forced promtion and relegation would really be like when we are all playing different formats??? Sure Team Y would love to play X. Sure they bust their butts to make sure they finish at the top of Div 1. and get a promotion up to EXL. Now in 2005 they are playing X against 7 other teams who have played the format for a whole season already. Is this fair to them?? or to the team they replaced, who helped get the EXL off the ground and now have to go back to playing 7 man/whatever that they haven't played for a year???
I feel that as long as the EXL is in the development stage and as long as there are still 2 other formats being played (7 man and 7 man premiere) the teams chosen for the EXL should be allowed to participate until their team either doesn't want to or they can't handle the added pressure & explode.
Or what about a promotion/relegation that is based on the performance over a 2 year period. If team B finishes in one of the bottom 2 spots 2 years straight then they get dropped out of EXL and a top team is given the opportunity to replace them.
Or as Beaker said - some kind of promotion/relegation tournament - but where the top 2 and bottom 2 play a double round robin tournament and the top 2 scoring teams get the EXL spots.
Just some random thoughts on a Christmas day
goose
P.S. all of this is ONLY until the MS decides to play X in all divisions.
1) The 8 team EXL is only the plan for NEXT year. Who knows what time will bring - so any judgements on the future of the NXL, based on what we know now are a little hasty. Hell it could end up being a 20 team/15 tournament league - we just don't know.
2) Has anyone thought of what forced promtion and relegation would really be like when we are all playing different formats??? Sure Team Y would love to play X. Sure they bust their butts to make sure they finish at the top of Div 1. and get a promotion up to EXL. Now in 2005 they are playing X against 7 other teams who have played the format for a whole season already. Is this fair to them?? or to the team they replaced, who helped get the EXL off the ground and now have to go back to playing 7 man/whatever that they haven't played for a year???
I feel that as long as the EXL is in the development stage and as long as there are still 2 other formats being played (7 man and 7 man premiere) the teams chosen for the EXL should be allowed to participate until their team either doesn't want to or they can't handle the added pressure & explode.
Or what about a promotion/relegation that is based on the performance over a 2 year period. If team B finishes in one of the bottom 2 spots 2 years straight then they get dropped out of EXL and a top team is given the opportunity to replace them.
Or as Beaker said - some kind of promotion/relegation tournament - but where the top 2 and bottom 2 play a double round robin tournament and the top 2 scoring teams get the EXL spots.
Just some random thoughts on a Christmas day
goose
P.S. all of this is ONLY until the MS decides to play X in all divisions.
X in all divisions?
As cool as X Ball is, it's very poor at one thing: New teams. It's hard enough to pull a 7-man team together, but pulling an X Ball squad together is even worse. How many teams in Europe do you think are even capable of playing X Ball at this point, even if they wanted to?
As cool as X Ball is, it's very poor at one thing: New teams. It's hard enough to pull a 7-man team together, but pulling an X Ball squad together is even worse. How many teams in Europe do you think are even capable of playing X Ball at this point, even if they wanted to?
Agreed it isn't ideal, but to solve the first problem of teams not wanting to step up then you could do several things.
First seed from Premier, they get first option to step up, if they decide to pass over they stay in Prem and it's offered to team 2 and so on in turn
or...
First 4 teams in Prem earn the right to play in playoffs for the spot(s) if they fail to show then that's them saying, fair play we don't want to step up and other team(s) given a bye. They could play X for this playoff if you wanted. Or you could play top 4 Prem's play bottom 4 EXL double elimination top 4 stay EXL or something
To solve the second then I'd say tough luck, if we are trying to find the best then have the best in there, using some kind of playoffs to prove that point justifies if teams deserve their place.
I think that a closed shop franchise can only truly work when all teams are on a level field with salary caps and/or draft system so the bottom clubs get helped out.
For the record I do think the NFL is about the fairest league around as it has both and so you can see the cycle of the sh*t teams rebuilding (like TB Bucks
) and coming back up again. But if you had neither the best get better and the worst even worse. That means the league looses it's validity as saying it's a showcase for the best it's plain teams can't cut it.Other questions - what's obligation to the league and what will happen if a team fails to meet that? Say Tigers turn u with 4 players can they play? if Joy miss an even do they get kicked and Hardcore brought in? Also, what are the rules on rosters, guests etc?
It's just as we haven't got a franchise system (yet) then there is no money for the teams to lose if they don't turn up ala NXL.
I agree Goose that forced promotion isn't ideal, but to me you can work out a way that it can validify the league as being the best (over the course of years) and makes it a better option than having teams "stuck" in the EXL and diminishing its claim to be the best.
I disagree
Sam
Did you think of it this way? If the EXL is pushed and becomes successful, on TV and increases the publics interest and participation, then paintball products will become cheaper as more people are buying them? Also, in how many other sports do whole teams move up to pro status with the ease that paintball teams have been able to in the past? Individual players fair enough, but whole teams? The move by the MS will only legitimise the sport more, and bring it into line with other sports.
As it is in every other sport! How often do Nugget FC get to play Real Madrid?!?!?! Never. And rightly so, people need to stop being selfish, and make sacrifices for the good of the sport. So you done get to play one pro team at an event. Big deal, you will get far more out of playing a team closer to your level allowing you to guage how your team is progressing. And you make it sound as if there are hundreds of teams that aaspire to be pros.The majority of teams out there play for fun, they enjoy playing, and play for that reason, there are very few teams that want to become pro teams. The move will stop those teams self declaring pro status, but will not stop them achieving pro status if they are promoted each year. Fulham FC coudnt just declare premiership status, they had to get promoted 2/3 seasons in a row, thats how it should be in our sport too. The teams will never have to stay at the same level 'for the rest of their days' as you put it, they will just have to train hard and work at being promoted. I see no problem with that.
You have just proved my point. Most teams play for the fun of the sport, there are very few ambitious teams, and those will not be prevented from being promoted to the top, it will just take time. 3 years to go from novice to pro is not an unreasonable time for that team to pay their dues, and gain experience. there are very few players who go from novice to pro in under a few years.
Your honestly telling me that you go to these big events (how many events do the little teams actually play per year in the MS.....one? Most English teams only play Campaign Cup, which doesnt really count as a MS event as it is in their back yard) to play against the big teams in that one game? Rubbish. Most teams get steamrolled in that game vs the pros, and learn nothing. Its a waste of 2 minutes for the pro team and the team getting a beating. Both teams would get better value for money if they played a team of similar skill level.
I am gonna guess that most teams inthe UK only played one MS event last year, and that would have been Campaign, a domestic event....... So see you at Campaign next year
Since when did the MS have to give help to the teams that have supported it? Teams do not go to the MS events to support the league, that doesnt even fuigure in the mindset of any team. Teams go to win, nothing more, nothing less. Saying 'We supported the league and have now been thrown out' is a baseless argument.
The MS has not crushed anyones hopes, they will just have to work harder to get promoted. Or get to an individual skill level where they will be picked up by larger teams. The vast majority of teams in the MS have played at the same level for the last few years. I can think of many teams who have been in the same division year after year, and never tried to move up, so how will the promotion/relegation affect them??? It wont.
Sam
Obligation to the EXL will be the signing of a contract that states that you as a team will attend all 4 EXL events, and if selected attend the WC final in the USA. If you fulfill both those criteria, then you get a place in the 2005 league.
I guess rosters will be the same as in the USA, 18 players max. Ithas to be kept the same as the NXL rules format as it will aid consistency across the board
And for us, mere mortals...
There are going to be 9 events. Are all of them Millennium Series events, or are they split between MSE and MS Associated Events? In that case, is any of the associated events stepping up to replace Joy?
Can someone fill this list?
- * Max Masters (Germany) - April
- Mega (Lisbon) - May
- * Mayhem Masters (Amsterdam) - June
- * 7 Man WC (Toulouse) - July
- * Iberian Cup (Madrid) - July/August (40º)
- * Campaign Cup (London) - September
- ?? (Malaga) - November
- Camp Masters (Paris) - ??? (I bet March or October)
What would the ninth event be?
(*) MS Event
There are going to be 9 events. Are all of them Millennium Series events, or are they split between MSE and MS Associated Events? In that case, is any of the associated events stepping up to replace Joy?
Can someone fill this list?
- * Max Masters (Germany) - April
- Mega (Lisbon) - May
- * Mayhem Masters (Amsterdam) - June
- * 7 Man WC (Toulouse) - July
- * Iberian Cup (Madrid) - July/August (40º
)- * Campaign Cup (London) - September
- ?? (Malaga) - November
- Camp Masters (Paris) - ??? (I bet March or October)
What would the ninth event be?
(*) MS Event