Sergei Leontiev : The Russian Legion Response

[manike]

And now for something completely different...

Originally posted by goose
... well okay not really, but this whole discussion brings one question to mind.

Nowhere in the rules is there any provision for a player, who discovers that his marker is malfunctioning, be able to remove himself from the game without being penalized/suspended form the tournament.

What I would like to see is a section that says something along the lines of:
If at anytime during the course of a game, a player notices his marker behaving in a manner that is contradictory to the rules, they will be allowed to remove themselves from the game without further penalty to the team or player. The player is then responsible for correcting the problem before the nest game.


Just some food for thought.

goose

That Goose is exactly the thoughts I wanted to get from people when I asked my first question about at what point it becomes an issue. We need to sort out issues like this in our sport. I hope with thoughts like this that some good comes from all this mess. I tried to find you at Portugal but didn't. I shall try harder next time.

In the same way as with the hot gun issue we discussed before don't you think that the player should do this before they are being checked by a marshal or before the game is over? If so then we have just hit the nail on the head of what I am getting on about. And my whole issue here.

Originally posted by Robbo
... do you believe the RL knowingly went on to the field of play, fully aware that their guns were affected (or could potentially malfunction) by what they had only heard about happening with some other guns with regard to misfiring

Pete haven't you answered your own guestion there?

manike

 

[pestilence]

hmmm

And the real need for an apology is, the RL have prided themselves on not cheating (maybe hard for someone like you to believe) but it is anathema to them and to have somebody suggest otherwise, especially when they do not know the full facts and a denial (by Sergei) has been made, it is an insult and one that I will defend to the end.
You say it is weak, I say it is principled !!!
Nuff said on that !!
Robbo

I was not questioning the need for an apology, but the way you go about getting it!

As far as I can see, Manike has kept to logical argument, and has attempted to counter your arguments in a courteous and grown up fashion (i.e he hasn't responded to name calling, or threats of a ban to get his way).

Whether RL attempted to cheat or not (and for the record, I dont belive they did) was the nature of the debate, Robbo your defense of RL is admirable, but I strongly disagree about the way you go about enforcing the need for an apology.

Manike - if they kick you out of here, then feel free to come to www.teamapoc.co.uk and follow the link to our forumn. In fact if any wants to come say Hi feel free.

 

[Rich S]

when i first saw paintbal a few years ago it was of the RL and i have to say that i have supported them since, their style of play is a step above brilliance, and i don't believe that i have ever seen them cheat.

i assume that because they have problems with something like a 'eye' then they carry electric markers, if so then there is always a possibility that the markers may go wrong. anything electrical can go wrong. but we continually use them as they are the future and at some point we will have them so they wont f#*k up and problems like this wont happen. earlier it was said that the problem was generic, if it is happening to all who use the same setup then how can the RL be accused of cheating.

 

[Robbo]

Re: And now for something completely different...

Originally posted by manike

Pete haven't you answered your own guestion there?

manike

I tried one last time to help you out of this, you have ignored it in favour of trying to look clever and avoid answering a direct and simple question.
Go and have a good time in the Land of Pestilence, you are not welcome here any more, I am sure you and he will be very happy together !!!
No More !!!!!!!!!

Robbo

 

[Robbo]

hmmm

Originally posted by pestilence


I was not questioning the need for an apology, but the way you go about getting it!

As far as I can see, Manike has kept to logical argument, and has attempted to counter your arguments in a courteous and grown up fashion (i.e he hasn't responded to name calling, or threats of a ban to get his way).

Whether RL attempted to cheat or not (and for the record, I dont belive they did) was the nature of the debate, Robbo your defense of RL is admirable, but I strongly disagree about the way you go about enforcing the need for an apology.

Manike - if they kick you out of here, then feel free to come to www.teamapoc.co.uk and follow the link to our forumn. In fact if any wants to come say Hi feel free.

If you think being pedantic, intransigent and blinkered is logical, then feel free, the world is full of people like him who's only claim to fame is being a technofile and a jobsworth.
Why is it learned people on this board such as Bud, Rancid and Nick all agree he should apologise, he is a lone voice in all this.
You are probably right that perhaps I should adjust the way I attack issues or in this case people.
But in my mind, he attacked and accused, albeit inferred, a good friend of mine, of cheating.
No greater slur you can you heap on a team than that in this game, it is the ultimate insult.
He had no grounds to make the leap from the facts before him to assert they intentionally cheated.
Only his right to hold an opinion was offered up as a reason enough.
I, as you know, have the utmost respect for what the RL have given us and to see somebody like him, who has done nothing for this sport of ours, malign them, was just too much.
Now if you got a problem with that, then you have a choice also.

I hold my hands up and admit, I am heavy handed, confrontational and God knows what else but I tell you something, you can never accuse me of cheating, being disloyal to my friends or lying on the pages of P8ntballer or PGI.
But hey Pestilence, none of us are perfect are we ?

Robbo

 

[canpap]

whoa!!!

lots of things happened after my last post eh??

Pete,

can you exactly tell me why did you ban manike?

I am not %100 sure I did not get the whole story but it seems to like a cencorship to me please explain.... still, banning him is no solution....

Manike - if they kick you out of here, then feel free to come to www.teamapoc.co.uk and follow the link to our forumn. In fact if any wants to come say Hi feel free.

pestilence,

what the hell is this?? is this place seems like an ad forum???


originally posted by robbo:

Now this is the deal Manike, either you apologise on this board to Sergei and the RL or you will be banned from this board.

Now when I sometimes get into scrapes like these I ask around to see whether or not I am on my own and it's my temper leading me the wrong way.

pete, your temper may have lead to a wrong way about banning, I think you should think again....

anyways...

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by canpap
whoa!!!
lots of things happened after my last post eh??
Pete,
can you exactly tell me why did you ban manike?
I am not %100 sure I did not get the whole story but it seems to like a cencorship to me please explain.... still, banning him is no solution....
pete, your temper may have lead to a wrong way about banning, I think you should think again....
anyways...

John, the moderators have the right, since it is our site, to allow or not allow, people to post messages on tihs board.
Censorship it may be, there has to be some sort of behavioural guidelines otherwise it descends into something akin to Smacktalk where anything seemingly goes.
That ain't gonna happen !
Now you may not agree with him being banned, I don't care, that is no concern of mine.
He was banned because he inferred the RL were intentionally cheating and when asked to apologise for his libellous claims he declined on numerous occasions.
ANd that was after, Nick Brockdorff, Buddha3, Niall Squire, Rancid and so on, all agreed he had overstepped the mark.
I am not alone in this John !!
He then went on to deny actually 'saying' they were cheats but maybe inferred they were, either way I don't care.
I then, to try and bring an end to the matter, asked him a direct and simple question which would have clarified matters for everybody and he made a smart ass remark, refusing to answer correctly.
Now, if me and you could bring an end to the way things going in a civilised way, then so can he, he had more than one opportunity.
As for censorship being the wrong way, well, let me tell you something John, this is the way this one is going, I don't like the guy, never have, never will, but that in itself is no reason I know.
I have had many people on this board call me all sorts of names and been damn rude, they have never been banned.
Manike, pushed all the wrong buttons, far too many times.
I have already talked to the chief moderator about this and if he had disagreed, he would have over ruled me in a heartbeat, and believe me, had the need to overrule me been there, he would have done so, no problem.
And believe me also, I would have re-thought my actions and not banned him.
But I have his backing 100%.
As for my temper getting the best of me, hey, that ain't no news.
I have lived with that all my life but I am here and he ain't and that's how it's gonna be.
This is the first person I have banned on here in years, that in itself should tell you I think I have good reason when you bear in mind some of the **** I have come in for on these boards.
Anyway, that's it from me on this.
Robbo

 

[canpap]

Pete, the explanation is enough for me I got what you say...

probably this also means the end of this thread which in a way is good for everyones sake...

by the way one last question that I have always wondered from the start, Don't the RL guys have internet?? Why did not they made some comments???

 

[pestilence]

Fao Canpap...

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Manike - if they kick you out of here, then feel free to come to www.teamapoc.co.uk and follow the link to our forumn. In fact if any wants to come say Hi feel free.
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pestilence,

what the hell is this?? is this place seems like an ad forum???

Well, it's our (Team Apocalypse's) website, there's link to the Apoc forum - Neutral ground.........

(Follow the 'hot threds') Come say Hi, or get in an argument, or dont bother.... the choice is yours!!

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by canpap
Pete, the explanation is enough for me I got what you say...
probably this also means the end of this thread which in a way is good for everyones sake...
by the way one last question that I have always wondered from the start, Don't the RL guys have internet?? Why did not they made some comments???

Hey John,
most of the Russian guys don't speak a word of English I'm afraid. Sergei their captain and one other player are the only ones I speak to and as to them coming on to the web to answer Manike's accusations, I doubt they have the time or inclination.
Well, today I got an email from Sergei, explaining a lot of the things he wanted to say after he had read some of what Manike had written.
As you can imagine, after all he (Sergei) has done for paintball, he felt Manike's claims to be totally unfair.
Most of the guys on the RL also work for Sergei as security in the bank that he is vice president of, so I think net surfing may well be a problem for them
I hope this is the end of this thread because it has left a bitter after-taste in my mouth as a result of somebody being banned and I know this is not a good state of affairs, especially for me.
But there were three opportunities for him to change his tone and basically keep his gob shut, he chose not to do so
If I thought by putting Sergei's email up on this thread would do some good, then let me know, if not, then this subject is buried.
Laters John
Pete