Sergei Leontiev : The Russian Legion Response
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
manike, what's your motivation here?
In the heat of the moment, the three of you have perhaps riled each other up - ok it happens. But canpap and robbo seem to have calmed down and called it quits (or at least allowed a bit of respect to get the better of them), whilst you seem to be spoiling for a fight.
Doesn't it boil down to Robbo defining 'cheat' as intent, whereas others feel negligence = cheat. Shall we just move on now?
In the heat of the moment, the three of you have perhaps riled each other up - ok it happens. But canpap and robbo seem to have calmed down and called it quits (or at least allowed a bit of respect to get the better of them), whilst you seem to be spoiling for a fight.
Doesn't it boil down to Robbo defining 'cheat' as intent, whereas others feel negligence = cheat. Shall we just move on now?
Well, just for the sake of the people who might read this, I will deconstruct your post and expose you for the fool and bigot you are :-
I did not want to even bother to do this but you had to keep that big mouth of yours in overdrive !!!
U say
Pete the points which I jumped on were to do with YOUR saying they did not cheat, which neither you nor I can still say for certain, it's just not possible to do so.
Well nobody can say for certain can they, I mean, none of us are in their heads for God's sake so it would seem you have achieved a degree in stating the frikkin obvious.
What most of us tend to do when faced with similar situations, is to look around for information that may help us decide and in this case, a quick look at what the RL have shown us all over the past couple of years would reveal their complete and utter denial of all things to do with cheating.
Their demeanour on the field is as exemplary as it is off and on that basis, most people would assume they did not cheat, but you never gave them that benefit of the doubt did you !
U say
I'm happy to believe they did not necessarily cheat on purpose (I'm not convinced though) but I still think your original statement to be incorrect.
Now this statement is a joke, any remedial class in philosophy would enlighten you to the fact these are mutually exclusive statements.
You cannot in one breath say, you are 'happy' to believe they did not cheat and yet in the next state that you are unconvinced as to their innocence.
This is absolute contradictory bollocks !!!!
U say
And the second point I jumped on is that YOU stated as fact that they did not have FA guns which I think I have proven they did.
You have proven ****, were you there when the guns were fired off by the judges ?
No you weren't!!!
Have you since examined the guns ?
No you haven't !!
So proof is definitely not a word you can use in this context !!
U say
And YOUR saying that they did not know it was happening, which may have been the case or may not it's dubious in my mind), is an issue and in my opinion never completely solvable
Well Sergei told me he never knew and nor did any of his players, then you are saying Sergei is a liar ad this is a very serious accusation and one I would be very careful in making if I were you.
The fact you say it was dubious is made on what grounds ?
Their character ?
Nah, it's exemplary in every other department of the game.
Do they have a precedent of lying ?
Nah, never !!!
So what then ?
I tell you why you took that line, because to give them the benefit of the doubt (as the vast majority of others already have done) would mean you were wrong and you couldn't have that could you Simon !!
U say
I think this debate has maybe been more about you than the actual RL.
It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with your initial accusation of accusing the RL of knowingly cheating !!!
Don't try an deflect this away from the issue in hand, that was a cheap shot at trying to personalise things !!
U say
I still find it hard for anyone to not realise it was happening until the moment a chrono judge took their guns to check them. As I mentioned before I saw their guns and was concerned about them before the game where the players were banned.
You have already made that point, you 'say' you were concerned about their guns before, I say this much, you are a liar, you say it now because it is convenient and it substantiates your claims, I say you are a liar again !!!!!
If you were so concerned about their guns, what was the name of the official you reported your concerns to?
Frikkin name him !!!!!!!!!
U say
I'm sorry that this debate may have caused them more harm. (I doubt it has and I don't think we should over (or under) estimate the power of this board.
Oh you doubt it has do you, and who the hell are you to minimise the effect of accusing them of cheating in one breath and in the next stating you don't think it has done them any harm ?
What f##kin arrogance that is !!!!
It is you who underestimate the effect of the written word !
U say
I don't think an apology is required from anyone apart from yourself for making incorrect statements and confusing opinion with fact.
I tell you what Simon, I have apologised many times on this board but an apology for what I have done thus far in this thread, over my dead body !!!
You opened your gob and libelled the name of the RL with no real substantiation, you owe an apology to the RL and to Sergei, no argument !!!
U say
I also think they are the fairest pro team in paintball. I think they made a big mistake here, got caught and paid the price. Fair enough. I think even with this they are the fairest and will continue to be the fairest pro team in paintball
This bit just makes me wanna puke, how f##kin gracious of you to infer your seal of approved cleanliness upon them straight after you accuse them of intentional cheating !!!
You really are a piece of work aren't you Simon ?
Now, I have answered all of your crummy, grubby, ill-informed little points, that is Simon, all except the last question you asked regarding the back door !!!
You think I'm stupid ?
Big mistake !!!!
Robbo
I did not want to even bother to do this but you had to keep that big mouth of yours in overdrive !!!
U say
Pete the points which I jumped on were to do with YOUR saying they did not cheat, which neither you nor I can still say for certain, it's just not possible to do so.
Well nobody can say for certain can they, I mean, none of us are in their heads for God's sake so it would seem you have achieved a degree in stating the frikkin obvious.
What most of us tend to do when faced with similar situations, is to look around for information that may help us decide and in this case, a quick look at what the RL have shown us all over the past couple of years would reveal their complete and utter denial of all things to do with cheating.
Their demeanour on the field is as exemplary as it is off and on that basis, most people would assume they did not cheat, but you never gave them that benefit of the doubt did you !
U say
I'm happy to believe they did not necessarily cheat on purpose (I'm not convinced though) but I still think your original statement to be incorrect.
Now this statement is a joke, any remedial class in philosophy would enlighten you to the fact these are mutually exclusive statements.
You cannot in one breath say, you are 'happy' to believe they did not cheat and yet in the next state that you are unconvinced as to their innocence.
This is absolute contradictory bollocks !!!!
U say
And the second point I jumped on is that YOU stated as fact that they did not have FA guns which I think I have proven they did.
You have proven ****, were you there when the guns were fired off by the judges ?
No you weren't!!!
Have you since examined the guns ?
No you haven't !!
So proof is definitely not a word you can use in this context !!
U say
And YOUR saying that they did not know it was happening, which may have been the case or may not it's dubious in my mind), is an issue and in my opinion never completely solvable
Well Sergei told me he never knew and nor did any of his players, then you are saying Sergei is a liar ad this is a very serious accusation and one I would be very careful in making if I were you.
The fact you say it was dubious is made on what grounds ?
Their character ?
Nah, it's exemplary in every other department of the game.
Do they have a precedent of lying ?
Nah, never !!!
So what then ?
I tell you why you took that line, because to give them the benefit of the doubt (as the vast majority of others already have done) would mean you were wrong and you couldn't have that could you Simon !!
U say
I think this debate has maybe been more about you than the actual RL.
It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with your initial accusation of accusing the RL of knowingly cheating !!!
Don't try an deflect this away from the issue in hand, that was a cheap shot at trying to personalise things !!
U say
I still find it hard for anyone to not realise it was happening until the moment a chrono judge took their guns to check them. As I mentioned before I saw their guns and was concerned about them before the game where the players were banned.
You have already made that point, you 'say' you were concerned about their guns before, I say this much, you are a liar, you say it now because it is convenient and it substantiates your claims, I say you are a liar again !!!!!
If you were so concerned about their guns, what was the name of the official you reported your concerns to?
Frikkin name him !!!!!!!!!
U say
I'm sorry that this debate may have caused them more harm. (I doubt it has and I don't think we should over (or under) estimate the power of this board.
Oh you doubt it has do you, and who the hell are you to minimise the effect of accusing them of cheating in one breath and in the next stating you don't think it has done them any harm ?
What f##kin arrogance that is !!!!
It is you who underestimate the effect of the written word !
U say
I don't think an apology is required from anyone apart from yourself for making incorrect statements and confusing opinion with fact.
I tell you what Simon, I have apologised many times on this board but an apology for what I have done thus far in this thread, over my dead body !!!
You opened your gob and libelled the name of the RL with no real substantiation, you owe an apology to the RL and to Sergei, no argument !!!
U say
I also think they are the fairest pro team in paintball. I think they made a big mistake here, got caught and paid the price. Fair enough. I think even with this they are the fairest and will continue to be the fairest pro team in paintball
This bit just makes me wanna puke, how f##kin gracious of you to infer your seal of approved cleanliness upon them straight after you accuse them of intentional cheating !!!
You really are a piece of work aren't you Simon ?
Now, I have answered all of your crummy, grubby, ill-informed little points, that is Simon, all except the last question you asked regarding the back door !!!
You think I'm stupid ?
Big mistake !!!!
Robbo
R, my teeth are grinding, my head is sweating, my pulse is racing and my hands are clenching and yet........and yet, I still manage to keep some semblance of control on proceedings.
Hmmmmm, soon it's time for vodka and bed
P
Wow..
And I thought it was only Apocalypse that pissed you off Mr Robinson!
Looking at both arguments, It seems that you both have made valid points, but shouldn't the argument revolve around how these things can be prevented in the future ( I mean the whole marker regulations bit).....after all, thats what started all this...
And while I'm here,
Robbo, your debateing skillz are spot on. You mix the truth, with personal attack, Very effective!
Mainke, your agrumnet style diefintly based on technoligical prowess, and you certianly have a lot of control, not to bite back!
Lots of luv
Pestybollox
And I thought it was only Apocalypse that pissed you off Mr Robinson!
Looking at both arguments, It seems that you both have made valid points, but shouldn't the argument revolve around how these things can be prevented in the future ( I mean the whole marker regulations bit).....after all, thats what started all this...
And while I'm here,
Robbo, your debateing skillz are spot on. You mix the truth, with personal attack, Very effective!
Mainke, your agrumnet style diefintly based on technoligical prowess, and you certianly have a lot of control, not to bite back!
Lots of luv
Pestybollox
Pete,
I agree with one point with you which is, that I am very protective about my friends.
But also agree that sometimes friendship can cloud your mind. This is why manike is right about carrying this debate to a secure level without RL.
It is good to see that you are on the same level as me, about being non personal etc.
But for the RL, as I have already told I will stand my ground therefore no apology to them I did not accuse them. They made a mistake, does not matter if made deliberately or not, they paid the price and I asked hoe did they make the mistake and I learned how they did it so no more to say....
as for the Turkish / Anglo relations, we always win on and off the field.... (beat mayhem tigers two times one time banzais lost to rushers and won again on some other brit team) same as in soccer.... (remember the uefa cup final between arsenal and galatasaray????
anyway this was just for fun, to get down to serious thing, is for me this thread has fulfilled its purpose and there is no point to push it through.....
Time for pure vodka and a good massage from my lady friend....
Night....
John.
I agree with one point with you which is, that I am very protective about my friends.
But also agree that sometimes friendship can cloud your mind. This is why manike is right about carrying this debate to a secure level without RL.
It is good to see that you are on the same level as me, about being non personal etc.
But for the RL, as I have already told I will stand my ground therefore no apology to them I did not accuse them. They made a mistake, does not matter if made deliberately or not, they paid the price and I asked hoe did they make the mistake and I learned how they did it so no more to say....
as for the Turkish / Anglo relations, we always win on and off the field.... (beat mayhem tigers two times one time banzais lost to rushers and won again on some other brit team) same as in soccer.... (remember the uefa cup final between arsenal and galatasaray????
anyway this was just for fun, to get down to serious thing, is for me this thread has fulfilled its purpose and there is no point to push it through.....
Time for pure vodka and a good massage from my lady friend....
Night....
John.
I must agree with pestilence on this matter.
You three can go on like this for years and the only thing you would agree would to disagree.
What we should be looking at is what has happened and how to preventing this from happening again. This would be best for all partys no matter if you are a player or tournament organizer.
So I would suggest we kill this argument right now and start “brain storming” a preventive action for future events.
Now kiss and make up, or I slap you both on the backs of your legs and send you to bed with no supper!!
My motivation is purely that I love this sport and think that people who push the rules should be pointed out and stopped from doing it. That is it.
I don't play on a competing team against the RL. I am not a pro. I am someone who puts a lot of personal effort and money into protecting this sport and promoting it. I have no personal issues or anything else other than trying to protect the game and inform those that don't know any better. I have no reputation to prove or back up. My whole reason for posting on the net about paintball is to promote the sport and inform people. I think this debate is no longer doing that. I've made the points I want to make. I'm sorry that Pete doesn't see them or want to even acknowledge them. He is just as stubborn as I. Never a good thing when two such people clash.
Rancid, I have tried to move on at several points but as you put it Pete has riled me up and been unable to accept any facts of the case. Oh well I do believe we are all welcome to our own opinions. They are like arseholes. Everyone has one.
Pete will always win when it comes to shouting loudest and having the last word. I am able to see his points and understand them. He is not even able to comprehend my points or where I come from. I've made my points and see no point in continueing what is really just going to be a slanging match and charachter assassination.
I can keep deconstructing Pete's posts and using them against his arguement but will it help either of us or the sport? I don't think it will any longer. People can read what has been said and make their own minds up. Just as long as they are informed of all the information and all the possibilites then they can conclude whatever they wish to.
Pestilence I agree 100% what we should be looking at is how to stop such issues in the future, my reason for highlithign this is to that effect. I thought the rules were black and white but I guess not. How do we make them so and stop such problems re-occuring? I might note that another top pro-team was once done for this same infraction and no-one came on here saying they hadn't been cheating on that occasion. As has been pointed out before, we need consistency.
Pete my point about them still being the cleanest pro team still holds. Maybe that implies something else about other pro teams I know and have watched.
manike