Rumored latest NPPL response to gun cheats

[Baca Loco]

IF this procedure is going to be implemented in Denver why is it being, at most, unofficially announced through the backdoor? Isn't one of the points of rules and procedures the clear and unambiguous maintenence of order and fair play?
If so how does some 'spring it as a trap' mentality uphold the integrity of the game? Isn't it reduced to just being a lame publicity stunt whether it works or not?
And if it isn't officially announced and in the rule book why should anyone acquiesce to such a demand? (Particularly as the league already has demonstrated it will back down--from Dynasty at least--even after a rule has been announced and published.)

Don't get me wrong--I am all for any improvement in the current NPPL rules implementation practices that is fair and not subjective--but as it stands it doesn't seem to me the right way to be going about starting to do this.
And a prediction--if they (rightly or wrongly) drop the hammer on too many players and teams the backlash will be huge and if they don't "catch" enough the players and teams will have no more respect for this action than they have had for the rest of the rules. Either way the NPPL may "lose" which is why this should have been done above board and with all the fanfare the NPPL can muster--and that's a lot.

 

[Chicago]

What's to announce?

The rule says semi-auto only. If you use something other than semi-auto,and you get caught, that's your problem. I see no reason why the league shoud be obligted to inform cheaters how they are going to be caught. You're a cheater. You don't deserve a warning.

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Chicago
What's to announce?

The rule says semi-auto only. If you use something other than semi-auto,and you get caught, that's your problem. I see no reason why the league shoud be obligted to inform cheaters how they are going to be caught. You're a cheater. You don't deserve a warning.

I agree.

 

[shamu]

Originally posted by Chicago
What's to announce?

The rule says semi-auto only. If you use something other than semi-auto,and you get caught, that's your problem. I see no reason why the league shoud be obligted to inform cheaters how they are going to be caught. You're a cheater. You don't deserve a warning.

True. When was the last time you saw a sign saying "caution: speed trap ahead"?

 

[Baca Loco]

Sorry, Whale. It ain't the same situation but if you want to argue the merits of that sort of police enforcement in a supposedly free society we can start that thread in SYB. Maybe we can include random roadside stops, too.

Tell me, Shamu, how much practice and training do you and your crew have using the equipment that will "catch" the cheaters on field?

At a minimum you can assure the players you guys know what you're doing, right?

Well then why should the league, the NPPL or any other, tell the players how they are gonna test for bounce, for example? Bouncing guns are illegal so any gun that can be bounced is illegal too and the only thing that providing procedures in the rules does is help the cheaters work around the procedures. So shouldn't it be anything goes to catch them, too?
Or is just a little bounce okay? Maybe just a couple of shots of ramp should be overlooked too? I mean, if it's only a little bit it doesn't matter that much, right?

 

[shamu]

If the problem is trigger bounce, then that should be caught by the chrono judge. Ramping is a little different in that it's designed to bypass the chrono judge's testing. That at least is something the robot is able to test for and catch (if a marker is bouncing).

If you're asking about training, well you got me there. We're only a few days from the next event and I haven't heard anything about new rules/procedures except what I've read on here. Have I been trained on any new procedure? Nope. Will there be any new procedures? Guess I'll find out Thursday night at the ref's meeting.

But...

The equipment they use to test the markers on the field is usually run by one or two refs who are trained on it. Dan Perez was using it in Tampa, moving around the fields to spot check. Maybe they'll have more training/equipment/whatever in Denver or later events.

Do I feel sorry for someone who's caught with a ramping marker because we didn't tell them every single thing we were going to do to catch them? Hell no. Just like speeding - if you push the envelope and get caught, it's your own fault.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by shamu
1--If the problem is trigger bounce, then that should be caught by the chrono judge. Ramping is a little different in that it's designed to bypass the chrono judge's testing. That at least is something the robot is able to test for and catch (if a marker is bouncing).

2--If you're asking about training, well you got me there. We're only a few days from the next event and I haven't heard anything about new rules/procedures except what I've read on here. Have I been trained on any new procedure? Nope. Will there be any new procedures? Guess I'll find out Thursday night at the ref's meeting.

But...

3--The equipment they use to test the markers on the field is usually run by one or two refs who are trained on it. Dan Perez was using it in Tampa, moving around the fields to spot check. Maybe they'll have more training/equipment/whatever in Denver or later events.

4--Do I feel sorry for someone who's caught with a ramping marker because we didn't tell them every single thing we were going to do to catch them? Hell no. Just like speeding - if you push the envelope and get caught, it's your own fault.

1--whether or not the chrono judge catches the bounce isn't really the point. Look at the furor and chaos the MS dealt with last year with regards testing bounce when they changed procedures mid-stream even though they announced it. Part of the problem is bounce testing remains subjective and if it isn't grossly obvious nobody is really all that concerned. Yet it's not substantially different from the ramping everyone's all a-twitter over except in its efficiency.
2--Excellent plan. Spring a new enforcement procedure on a thousand plus players, most of whom paid out of their own pockets to play, yet a NPPL field ultimate has no clue what's going on. And this is really a good idea how? 'Cus it'll catch those nasty cheaters? Blood in the streets! (Not your fault of course Whale...)
3--what other equipment has been used?
4--What exactly are you after, compliance or punishment? If the goal is to get as many players as possible to comply with the rules then why do this? If the goal is to hopefully catch loads of cheaters well then this might work depending on many radar chronos are in use by however many maybe trained officials. The truth is though the targeting will be limited because a) if this happens the league is just trying to scare off most of the cheaters and b) the way the schedule works they can't possibly handle wholesale enforcement of the sort Missy hinted at. Too many games potentially going to time ruins the schedule as is. In which case since the whole effort is "unofficial" it is begging for controversy and if it doesn't work out flawlessly it will have garnered the league's enforcement policy as much repsect as Robbie the Robot gets. Doesn't look like a win, win to me.

As to those who get caught deserving it sure they deserve it but are you really advancing your broader goal by implementing this test this way?

 

[manike]

Pssttt... Baco, if you tell the cheats how you are going to catch them... you won't catch them.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
Pssttt... Baco, if you tell the cheats how you are going to catch them... you won't catch them.

Simon, there is a particular stripe of rampers they likely won't catch anyway but if the procedure is actually any good it should be a sufficient deterent to compel compliance in the first place. The baseline problem isn't ramping per se, it is contempt for the rules altogether. If this is just another cobbled together, hope it kinda works speed bump it isn't addressing the fundamental problem. All I'm saying.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
What exactly are you after, compliance or punishment?

Com'on BAca, you know this isn't an either/or situation. You can't have compliance without punishment. The people who are not complying won't start unless you punish them. The people who are complying will feel like they're being cheated if the people who are not complying are not punished, and they'll gradually start to not comply themselves.