Return of the Political Thread

[TJ Lambini]

Originally posted by Steve Morris
Now, to bring balance to my own posts and to guarantee I get my butt kicked on both continents:

I had an admittedly naïve hope that the great EU project could be the way to bring some balance in the industrialized world so that we Americans wouldn't have to keep coming over to sort things out. I have been so sick of the abuse we have received for extending an umbrella of protection over Europe. Europe needs to take care of itself. Unfortunately the crises in the former Yugoslavia proved that Europe couldn't take care of business in its own back yard so we had to get involved in Bosnia-Herzegovina after the Euros stood by (literally in the case of one infamous incident involving Dutch "peacekeepers"; was it Banjeluka?) with their thumbs out of daylight. Then again in Kosovo.

Of course the US and NATO don't act selflessly. I think much of how we react to situations is because of the experience of the last two great wars in which it was clear that earlier action would have saved millions of lives and countless resources. So much of our overreaction to situations is from the educational effect of the Munich Accords before Germany annexed Austria and subsequently invaded Poland. I think that contributed to the gigantic mistake of America's Vietnam war and perhaps even the latest Gulf war. In part I blame Europeans and the UN for those overreactions.

Meanwhile the European approach (along with the UN) to so many crises is to "talk about it" and pass resolutions like the 15 passed after Saddam thumbed his nose. Dangerous naïveté.

So let the EU develop this continent into an alternate superpower that can stand on its own and deal with its own problems. The resources are certainly here; why should the Euros get a free ride militarily? (And I know European nations have also paid a lot expenses for NATO but why should our troops be here?).

It is also very clear that there were moments, even relatively late, that the Eastern Bloc would have popped across the borders if we had not been there and shown resolve. The plans were definitely in place.

Then about the EU: It is so irritating that there is so much foot-dragging about the project. If the UK, Sweden and Denmark weren't so pig-headed about the euro I believe the European economy would already be much better now and much more dynamic. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a little of the temporary selfish prosperity for the sake of a much better collective in the future (that shoe fits Norway even better). Then there are indications that the French, who have championed the EU concepts, might say non to the EU constitution.

Satisfied now, my dear steer?

Cow be sitting in his little pasture in tha mountains, shucking shells from his Browning, muttering bout tha durn federal govt and their Goddamn taxes to build roads in Iowa - and he ain't even even done gone bin to Iowa. Heck, he ain't even sure where Iowa is, or if'n it's really real...but one thing's fer sure - the Goddam Zionist freemason lefty alien lizardmen facist Govt will pry his Browning and his tax money from his cold dead hoof...

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by stongle
You do know that once "in", there is no way out?

I guess I forgot the lesson we learned from the War of Northern Aggression.

Of course we did manage to wrangle ourselves out of British oppression almost 100 years earlier. But, yeah, we didn't try that sucker. We were born into it.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by duffistuta
Look, we're busy suspending human rights and bringing in house arrest and Brussels isn't getting in the way of that, so they're obviously right thinking at heart.

As an aside, isn't that a similar argument that the anti-federalists make against being governed from Washington? What's the difference between the US and Europe - you've got diverse languages and cultures, dirt poor States being supported by richer ones, plenty of endemic corruption and ineptitude and so on...time doesn't confer legitimacy does it?

I love you guys ( in a completely manly totally hetero sort of way, of course). Next time I'll find something y'all don't feel so defensive about. Perhaps we should discuss how the US of A undermined the legitimate elections of Ukraine to install our own puppet government.
Or another personal favorite--How China will rule the world in the coming century.

I just thought it was interesting that a man who spent the majority of his life resisting the oppressions of the former USSR is warning Euroland to be careful about what they allow the EU to become. Oh, wait you don't really have any say, do you? Let's see how many members vote down the constitution and let's see if it matters.

Duffy, Duffy, Duffy--SEE definition of Federalism as opposed to Statism.

Nice try, Steve-O, but you ain't fooling me, you hippy.

Maestro, is there any truth to the rumor I heard you nearly drowned last week after falling asleep while drinking your bong water--again? Be more careful, dude. Nothing wrong with Iowans except they run that silly caucus of theirs and I don't actually own any guns other than paintball guns. Shocking but true.

 

[duffistuta]

Re: Re: Return of the Political Thread

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I love you guys ( in a completely manly totally hetero sort of way, of course). Next time I'll find something y'all don't feel so defensive about. Perhaps we should discuss how the US of A undermined the legitimate elections of Ukraine to install our own puppet government.
Or another personal favorite--How China will rule the world in the coming century.

I just thought it was interesting that a man who spent the majority of his life resisting the oppressions of the former USSR is warning Euroland to be careful about what they allow the EU to become. Oh, wait you don't really have any say, do you? Let's see how many members vote down the constitution and let's see if it matters.

Duffy, Duffy, Duffy--SEE definition of Federalism as opposed to Statism.

Nice try, Steve-O, but you ain't fooling me, you hippy.

Maestro, is there any truth to the rumor I heard you nearly drowned last week after falling asleep while drinking your bong water--again? Be more careful, dude. Nothing wrong with Iowans except they run that silly caucus of theirs and I don't actually own any guns other than paintball guns. Shocking but true.

I was just counter stirring in my own quiet way - an effette yin to your manly yang...

And Ukraine was me and Glenn - stop nicking our coups for your own.

And as for China - we have been kow-towing to those human rights abusing mother****ers for far too long already. I've been waiting for ubya and Blair to keep to their stated aim of getting rid of all the nasty murderous dictators and invade China, but funnily enough...

 

[duffistuta]

Re: Re: Return of the Political Thread

Originally posted by Baca Loco


Duffy, Duffy, Duffy--SEE definition of Federalism as opposed to Statism.

Hair splitting and you know it.

 

[TJ Lambini]

Re: Re: Return of the Political Thread

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I don't actually own any guns other than paintball guns. Shocking but true.

Then you are a goddam leftie pinko veggie munching faggot who should go and live in Cuba.

You can have one of my Glocks, put hairs on your chest.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by duffistuta
Hair splitting and you know it.

I will grant you it seems to be headed that way but it isn't and shouldn't be a distinction without a difference.

You and Glenn may have been the men on the ground but who bankrolled ya? That's right.

Maestro--I'm offended. I have never willingly eaten a veggie in my entire life (potatoes don't count 'cus they is tubors). Glock, huh? Serial numbers been removed? Textured surface that doesn't retain fingerprints? If you could toss in a box of shells, too? Good to go.

 

[TJ Lambini]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Serial numbers been removed? Textured surface that doesn't retain fingerprints?

Surely that goes without saying...

 

[stongle]

Thats what the rubber bands are for.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by Steve Morris
Unfortunately the crises in the former Yugoslavia proved that Europe couldn't take care of business in its own back yard so we had to get involved in Bosnia-Herzegovina after the Euros stood by (literally in the case of one infamous incident involving Dutch "peacekeepers"; was it Banjeluka?) with their thumbs out of daylight. Then again in Kosovo.

That would have been Srebrenica.
As a little aside, the peacekeepers themselves were not to blame. As usual the fingers should be pointed at the government. The guys with the cute blue hats were quite willing to go tear and kick ass when the Serbs moved on the enclave, but they were not allowed to. The Dutch government sent them over with a totally unrealistic mandate. Because they felt they were there with a peacekeeping role, the Dutch soldiers should not display too violent an image. For this reason no tanks or other heavy weapons were sent over. The biggest thing they had was an YPR infantry fighting vehicle. Because of the reasons above they even had the turrets with the 25mm cannon removed, and replaced with a cupola mounted .50 M2 machine gun...
Basically spit wads when the Serbs moved in with T55's, which are tanks that are old as hell, but will blow the crap out of a disarmed YPR.

For some reason many western European countries are reluctant to deploy their full military might. Situations such as Bosnia and Kosovo could have easily been handled without the US joining in. But for some reason the US seems to be one of the few countries left that doesn't seem to mind it's young'uns getting killed...

About that economy thing, yes the EU as it is blows chunks, particularly for the Dutch, as we pay the largest contribution to Brussels of all the EU member states. But I think the US economy is in for a harder time than we are, particularly should the dollar plunge even further and the Euro would suddenly cost $1.40 or more.


My predictions for the next superpowers: China and India... Get used to it.