Raehl in a conflict of interest?

[PaintballChannel]

First, the ID cards are $20. There is a $10 additional charge if you wait until you show up at an event to get one, which only makes sense, as it's simply not feasible to issue 1,000 ID cards in one day and without the fee no one would do it in advance.

Ok. We'll go with $20. So, for Wolrd Cup, you would have made $41,000.

The printing machine costs ~$3,500 if you buy them or around $70/month if you lease them. The cards are ~50 cents each (I know, I order them all the time). The 4 color mylar is about $70, and will do 250 cards. So, for 2,050 players, that's about $1,025 for the cards and about $600 to print them. Your cost for doing all the cards for World Cup? $5125, which includes purchasing the machine. That leaves $35,875. Where does that go?

I have a tough time believing that these extra costs were not obvious to you, or that you didn't know that the price of the cards is $20. My phone number is also rather publically available, so if you were really concerned about it, as a concerned member of the paintball media, you could have just called and asked.

I'm aware of the different prices depending on whether you did it via mail or at an event.

So I have to wonder, why are you trying so hard to create a conspiracy? It seems a wee bit odd to me, because the ONLY two people I've heard have complained about the cards so far have been you and that other Anglacon guy on the paintballchannel team. Considering the general willingness of paintball players to complain about *ANYTHING*, that seems quite odd.

To quote you, "It will only cost a few dollars to make the cards". Where does the other 18 go? Does it go into a pot to help against future sandbagging? It just seems that it went from a "few dollars" to $20 real fast.

And, on top of that, players are already paying between $150 to $225 per person to play at an event, plus they have to pay for hotel, food, car rental, etc. Aren't the players already paying enough? Why are you throwing the cost on the players? Why not throw it on the promoter?

The PSP ID cards are good for one season.

So, next year every player is going to have to shell out $20 to $30 again?

At each event, each player will receive a player pass printed with their ID number, name, team name, and division. The pass will be color-coded based on 5-man/10-man/X-Ball. Come to think of it, how can you honestly claim to think of several ways to bypass the system and also claim to not know how the system works?

What if after I got my ID badge, I decided to give it to "Joe Pro" and he went onto the field with it? Are the refs going to be checking and verifying each and every player? Are the "players passes" going to have their picture on it or some other form of identification to verify who they are or to correlate with their other ID badge?

Please explaing exactly how this will curb sandbagging.

 

[PaintballChannel]

How do you know it's going to work in LA? You wont have anything to base your prior player information on since, technically, this will be the first game that they'll be used and they can sandbag all they want at the first event...no?

 

[BWillie]

To some it has probably been apparent that I chose to stop "debating" things on web forums. And that will continue to be my policy, but I can't stay out of this.

To be frank, it is apparent that you guys are trying to create something to "report" on. You are obviously bored with other issues and are choosing this as the next great "greed inspired" travesty to preach about.

Players want a system in place to curb "sandbagging". That is exactly what we are trying to do. An ID card, with your name and information, cross checked with a government issued ID to assure accuracy, and an ID# which is entered into a database that can be checked and cross referenced for use in preventing sandbagging in the future.

There are several costs involved, all of which are apparent to any semi-intelligent individual. Will it cost us $20 per card to produce? No. Therefore, this will be a profitable deal for PSP. How much profit will PSP make from selling ID cards? If my calculations are correct, we should profit about $70,000 from ID cards for the season.

So, if we were simply in the ID card selling business, one person could make a salary from owning this business. But, we aren't.

PSP lost several hundred thousand dollars last year. Increased entry fee, increased vendor fees, hopefully a better organized procedure for running these events, AND some money made from ID card sales will hopefully solve that problem. I hope it does, because my job depends on it.

I made the decision to sell ID cards for more than it will cost us to produce them. Me, Lane Wright. Not Chris Raehl, not Jerry Braun, not Renick Miller. I did. And, I will make the exact same salary that I made last year, and the year before. I will get paid the exact same amount of money that I would make whether we ever sold an ID card or not.

This is a very simple situation. Our player base has said they want a system to combat teams and players sandbagging. The business that I run has been in total financial disarray. This program helps both sides. What is the problem?

I will echo Chris' statement concerning the overall opinion of the ID system, ID cards, costs, etc --

At most, 1 out of 20 players have had ANY negative opinion. And, players have no problem what so ever when it comes to voicing complaints with me.

If you don't want to spend the $20 dollars to get an ID - don't. If you are going to play in our events, you will have to have an ID card so that we can track your classification, and identify that you are who you said you are, and it will cost you a minimum of $20. If you don't want to pay $30, do it before you get to the event. If you don't you will either pay $30 at the event, or you will not play in the event.


We will also provide more refs, better pay to the refs, a schedule break for the refs to help keep them as fresh as possible. I have hired one of the most respected people and referees in the world to head the reffing program. We have an increased prize package. We will have a better system for tracking prizes, who won them, who owes them, and a system for helping teams collect their prizes. We have hired a person with 20 years experience in construction to head our site building crew and hopefully he will be able to build a better facility for less money so that we will continue to stay in business. I have implemented a new scheduling process that will allow for each teams complete schedule to be posted the day after registration closes. This schedule will also break the day into 2 sections so that the players area is not so over run with players, and hopefully will help teams keep track of their belonging better. All of these improvements will be possible, at least in part, because we are charging more for ID cards than it will take for us to produce and distribute them.

But, if you would like, I will take a poll of the next 100 players who call me and see if they would rather give all of this up so that you and Angalacon don't have to fork over the extra $20 hard earned dollars.

I will not comment on this thread again, but I will check it for a reply. I would appreciate if in any reply you choose to write, you would include exactly what it is that is so wrong with charging for ID's, and why it is that you chose to single out Chris and PSP for charging for ID's when NPPL, Millennium, Pan Am, and others are doing the same thing and have been for years AND, for both NPPL and Millennium, they charge more than we do.

 

[Anglacon]

1. I complained about this on a diffrent site, but since some felt it needed to drag me into this over here, fine.

Simple as this.

Last year, chris said "it's free, why not do it, it will help the sport" etc...
I said fine, but will it be free next year?
"At most it will be $2.00" chris told me.
Now its 30.

As I stated before, if you need to make more money, raise entry fees, etc... dont lie to us.

I do not trust chris, because he has lied to me in the past.
Chris has admited, though, that if 10 teams or so got together and said "no", they would drop the ippa system.

Paintballers are more powerfull than they think, and if they stopped being sheep and doormats, rolling over everytime a crook wanted to rape them, they would see that for themselves.


All in all, I just dont like being lied to, and when the liar is called on it, were told basicaly "too bad- like it or lump it".

-Anglacon

 

[Robbo]

Chris....
Chris who ?

 

[shamu]

Originally posted by BWillie
...We will also provide more refs, better pay to the refs, a schedule break for the refs to help keep them as fresh as possible...

Short and sweet:

Knowing the changes both NPPL and PSP are working on, the price increases make sense.

Ballers have said for years that they'll pay for better reffing, better venues, better prizes. The major tournaments are becoming more professional and providing these things. To expect them to do it for the same costs is unrealistic.

At the same time, to expect ballers (who are notoriously cheap) not to question price increases is also unrealistic.

As long as someone like Lane or Camille can provide some reasoning for the changes, I think this kind discussion is good for the sport.

PS. I trust Lane. I trust Camille. I don't trust Chris.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by shamu
PS. I trust Lane. I trust Camille. I don't trust Chris.

Ditto 100%

 

[Furby]

Originally posted by Robbo
Ditto 100%

Figured that was pretty much a given, Pete...

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Furby
Figured that was pretty much a given, Pete...

Yeh I know Furbs..but some things in life...just have to be said

 

[Furby]

Very true, sir.

I was a little taken aback by Lane's response, but given the pressure he's under lately, it's perfectly understandable. As for the rest, I'll reserve judgement on it until I see it in action...I did hear rumors of several teams getting nabbed trying to sandbag at World Cup, so I do feel the system has a place. Whether or not Mr. Raehl is the man to run it will remain to be seen. Still, the man is stepping up to the plate and actually doing something about a perceived problem, rather than sitting back and complaining about it, so he gets my respect for that alone. I never could stomach endless whining and bitching about an issue without solutions being offered.

Bryan has a point, and his questions are valid, plus I'm wanting to see how the discussion progresses either for or against the classification system. Lane's response, while blunt, did answer some questions on my part. I personally don't have a problem paying $20 yearly for an ID card, but only if it's effective. If it turns into a user tax with no tangible value for the players, then I'd have a problem. Perhaps if the PSP, NPPL, etc. publically announced when they nabbed someone being a sandbagging *******, it'd help a bit. The deterrent factor may be worth considering as well.

Just my thoughts...like 'em or don't.