I thought you guys wanted to get more players involved in paintball????
Get people into paintball and they WILL improve.
Pump guns or semis?
- Thread starter Tiny man
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Get people into paintball and they WILL improve.
I'm not objecting to anyone playing some form of paintball anyway they want to--more power to 'em. I am suggesting that you do not advance the sport with restrictions that don't pose greater demands on the elite players. I realize that isn't precisely what the previous posters are advocating but their arguments seem to imply that the game and players would be improved by making those changes. And that is flat wrong.
I Think
That I have to lean towards Baca over these issues. I want to play the same ball game as Dynasty. I don't really like the idea of the NXL it's created a game that I'll probably never be able to play. The idea of limiting things for Novs and Ams not Pros will just increase the gap between us and them.
If you change the Milenium rules so that the top pros (basicly the US teams) no longer wish to play, do you reall think that Nexus, Joy, RL, the Ducklings etc will want to play our game? Nah they'll only play in the US which will mean that the gulf between US and Euro teams will increase (exaclty what we don't want IMHO).
What we don't want is longer games over bigger areas... that's where paintball has come from! Some old-timers may say "You don't know what you're missing" and I don't, but I want to play concept, I want fast paced, spectator (specifically me) friendly action.
Now pump X-Ball (or the like) may well be exaclty that intense, fast-paced etc if it is, bring it on! You set it up, I'll be there.
That I have to lean towards Baca over these issues. I want to play the same ball game as Dynasty. I don't really like the idea of the NXL it's created a game that I'll probably never be able to play. The idea of limiting things for Novs and Ams not Pros will just increase the gap between us and them.
If you change the Milenium rules so that the top pros (basicly the US teams) no longer wish to play, do you reall think that Nexus, Joy, RL, the Ducklings etc will want to play our game? Nah they'll only play in the US which will mean that the gulf between US and Euro teams will increase (exaclty what we don't want IMHO).
What we don't want is longer games over bigger areas... that's where paintball has come from! Some old-timers may say "You don't know what you're missing" and I don't, but I want to play concept, I want fast paced, spectator (specifically me) friendly action.
Now pump X-Ball (or the like) may well be exaclty that intense, fast-paced etc if it is, bring it on! You set it up, I'll be there.
I might not be as old in the game as you are, I can only go back 11 years when I played a competition my first time. And yes people wasn't athletes back then either, well Weasel in Dave Youngbloods team Tour de Force could be counted as one perhaps.
So I agree people wasn't athletes back then and they ain't now. But does that mean that we just should sit down, have a beer, relax and just don't do anything about it. Well I probably won't do much about it but if paintball want to be counted as a sport then it would really help if the games became more physically demanding.
We are already there! Dynasty is almost the only t o p USA pro team allwed to participate in the Millenium series, most of the other best teams are locked in the NXL. Nexus and Russian Legion are as far as I can understand, both on the border to what you just described.
So ok, let's say that all ideas so far are stupid.
What are we going to do then? Keep it as it is? Well I'm afraid that todays Millenium concept isn't strong enough to interest the best teams in the world and it is to expensive to attract and keep new players. X Ball all pump might be a bad idea, but it's at least an idea, and I would love to see it tested before I make my final judgement about it.
2 : See, I disagree from a filming standpoint. What you have now are players who have adapted to the technology available. This in itself isn't bad, in fact it's quite a feat. But let's look at it from the unblinking eye of TV. And, for a moment, disassociate yourself from the game.
One thing that I've learned from doing TV and Web Dog is the power of post production. When you watch videos like "At the 50" or "Push" or "Sunday Drivers", look at the cuts. It's all post production. And, why is that? Part of it is because they can shorten a game down to a few minutes to match a song, yes. But it's also because not a lot happens in a 10 minute paintball game. Most of the 'action' is hard to follow on the small screen, if not downright boring.
Now why is that? Paintball players don't move a lot. With 15 BPS flying at them, they don't come out of bunkers much. And when they do, it's all snapshooting. This is a spectacular skill, but it is not good TV unless you can improve the "gun cam". But for the most part, it's sit and sling. This is bad TV.
What does make good TV is movement. Large movement. I'm watching a replay of the Colorado / San Fran baseball game on ESPN right now, and the players MOVE! Beyond the normal 'tension' of pitcher / batter, the runners RUN. The fielders RUN to a ball that you can't always see on the TV. Paintball players don't run except on the break, and in limited spurts in the game play. What we mostly do is sit behind bunkers, and shoot paint. That's the technology, tha's the adaptations to the technologys.
Slowing down the ROF would open the field to move around. Your point of less skilled players now being able to play competitevly is one that I don't buy. What you would find is the skills would change, as they have to compensate for higher ROF.
IMHO : You would see more accurate shooting to compensate for a lack of firepower if they went pump. You would see sweet-spotting becoming a more refined skill, where you would have to have the ball meet the opponent at a point. You would see movement, more bunkerings, and a lot more spectacular slides into bunkers because the players could MOVE.
It's no diffrent then the era when paintball went form woods to arenas. The skills changed, a point that was made to me MANY times by people. So, no diffrent this time either. The skills would change, the great players can adjust, the bad players will do well until the good ones adjust and dominate. It's really a simple process of evolution
3 : Paintball players are not athletes, no matter how much we pretend to be. That's a given. But, perhaps that should change? I mean, if we're gonna be serious about making paintball a sport, shouldn't we the players treat it as such?
5 : Preacher, Choir.
A few other things too :
Richard : On the WDR video on "Gauntlet" target runs, I have my count at 8-9 BPS with a Phantom, sustained. That's with the autotrigger (Slamfire).
If a pump-version of X-ball is set up, I'll be there too. I'll even leave the ears home too. (Well, we'll see on that...)
-Tyger
Edited to fix typos and to clarify a few things...
I Think therefore I am...
Some players want it hardcore. Get it on! LEt's go! And that's cool. Hey, if you like it, who am I to tell you otherwise? I like a nice long paced game. I do, in fact, miss the old days of 45 minute games, but I also know that it sucked to be the first guy out too. And I also realise that not everyone would like to spend 15 minutes crawling up on a guy in the woods. And that's cool.
I am of the opinion that you don't know what you're missing, but it's not everyone's cup of fish either. Personally, I think everyone should try it once the old way, and then you'd appreciate the new tech.
The biggst point of what I'm saying is that you can bring the old tech into the new arenas. Skyball 2K did it, and it was a hit with the spectators who saw it. But under new management, they've decided not to do it again. But I still think it would work if given half a serious chance. It's spectarot friendly, lots of action, and the speed isn't in the trigger, it's in the action.
Old school, new tricks, all good.
-Tyger
I'm picking on this one thing the most, becasue it makes a good point.
Some players want it hardcore. Get it on! LEt's go! And that's cool. Hey, if you like it, who am I to tell you otherwise? I like a nice long paced game. I do, in fact, miss the old days of 45 minute games, but I also know that it sucked to be the first guy out too. And I also realise that not everyone would like to spend 15 minutes crawling up on a guy in the woods. And that's cool.
I am of the opinion that you don't know what you're missing, but it's not everyone's cup of fish either. Personally, I think everyone should try it once the old way, and then you'd appreciate the new tech.
The biggst point of what I'm saying is that you can bring the old tech into the new arenas. Skyball 2K did it, and it was a hit with the spectators who saw it. But under new management, they've decided not to do it again. But I still think it would work if given half a serious chance. It's spectarot friendly, lots of action, and the speed isn't in the trigger, it's in the action.
Old school, new tricks, all good.
-Tyger
Bah,
Tyger, you can express yourself. Please write a post about this in the EPA forum so that we can attract the opinions from the broader community. So many seams to agree that the ROF should be lowered, so the question is how do we do that?
Many say go pump!
Parhaps that idea should be given a shot
Tyger, you can express yourself. Please write a post about this in the EPA forum so that we can attract the opinions from the broader community. So many seams to agree that the ROF should be lowered, so the question is how do we do that?
Many say go pump!
Parhaps that idea should be given a shot
Re: I Think therefore I am...
Taperunner, the Milenium Series is loosing ground on the S7 that is why we are loosing the top teams. Do you think that the way to attract them back is to go in completely the opposite direction?
I'm out for intense action, lots of games etc... if pump can offer that, then I'll be there, would love to try a format that's not "fastest finger first"
Richard
P.s. one thing I think we can all agree on is that ordinary paintball (7-man sup'air unlimited) doesn't make good TV unless you already love the game (I can hear a can of worms opening...)
Taperunner, the Milenium Series is loosing ground on the S7 that is why we are loosing the top teams. Do you think that the way to attract them back is to go in completely the opposite direction?
I'm out for intense action, lots of games etc... if pump can offer that, then I'll be there, would love to try a format that's not "fastest finger first"
Richard
P.s. one thing I think we can all agree on is that ordinary paintball (7-man sup'air unlimited) doesn't make good TV unless you already love the game (I can hear a can of worms opening...)
Re: Re: I Think therefore I am...
but no one in the EPA seams to talk about it at all. (at least not asking for others opinion in public). Sometimes can a suggestion, even a bad one, make people start thinking in different circles and finally end up with a good idéa.
What do I know?
but no one in the EPA seams to talk about it at all. (at least not asking for others opinion in public). Sometimes can a suggestion, even a bad one, make people start thinking in different circles and finally end up with a good idéa.
Re: Re: Re: I Think therefore I am...
Are you a member of the EPA? If not, then join. "If you don't paticipate - you can't bitch" - EPA
Send in your comments to the EPA, if there are enough people interested in these things then they will persue it. My impression is that the majority of people like paintball as it is played at the moment. But I may be wrong.
Either way, if you want to persue a pump format of tourney then you know who to speak to:
Site owners
UKPSF
Teams with Sup'Airball fields
Guys who run toueny circuits
Post on here in Announcemtns "Pump Tourey, taking pumps into the Nu Skool" or something
I'll be there
Probably a helluva lot more than me... I just post here a lot (ask Baca).Originally posted by Taperunner
What do I know?
Are you a member of the EPA? If not, then join. "If you don't paticipate - you can't bitch" - EPA
Send in your comments to the EPA, if there are enough people interested in these things then they will persue it. My impression is that the majority of people like paintball as it is played at the moment. But I may be wrong.
Either way, if you want to persue a pump format of tourney then you know who to speak to:
Site owners
UKPSF
Teams with Sup'Airball fields
Guys who run toueny circuits
Post on here in Announcemtns "Pump Tourey, taking pumps into the Nu Skool" or something
I'll be there