Paintball Markers no longer on E-Bay
- Thread starter Fat Bob's Paintball
- Start date
I'm searching for the amendment which is pretty much paintballs get out clause but am having trouble finding it at the moment. It's all to do with lethal barrel or not and projectiles fired. There are certainly a lot more amendments since the page you posted a link to, in the 1980's and 1990's. It was some of the stuff in the 90's which was important to us IIRC.
I'm sure there is something somewhere about non-lethal barreled guns their definition and exemption from fire arm regulations but being controlled by air weapons legislation. Pretty much can be interpreted as it's not a fire arm but you need to keep it within this power level to be safe.
the eye is not skin...
Paintballs do not penetrate skin. They are not designed to, and I have never seen or heard of an incidence where they did. I've heard of them rupturing eyes and skin but that's not penetration. All paintball injuries on skin can be classed as trivial or a lot of people wouldn't play.
Therefore it's not lethal. I don't believe there has ever been a case of a paintball shot being lethal. Ever. And considering how many people get shot by them everyday to try and state that it could happen is crazy and scaremongering.
Even the incidents of severe eye trauma are never lethal. People can quite easily lose an eye to a paintball without it being a cause of death! I think it's your arguements that are now getting silly.
manike
I'm sure there is something somewhere about non-lethal barreled guns their definition and exemption from fire arm regulations but being controlled by air weapons legislation. Pretty much can be interpreted as it's not a fire arm but you need to keep it within this power level to be safe.
yes if it causes penetration...
you said it
the eye is not skin...Paintballs do not penetrate skin. They are not designed to, and I have never seen or heard of an incidence where they did. I've heard of them rupturing eyes and skin but that's not penetration. All paintball injuries on skin can be classed as trivial or a lot of people wouldn't play.
Therefore it's not lethal. I don't believe there has ever been a case of a paintball shot being lethal. Ever. And considering how many people get shot by them everyday to try and state that it could happen is crazy and scaremongering.
Even the incidents of severe eye trauma are never lethal. People can quite easily lose an eye to a paintball without it being a cause of death! I think it's your arguements that are now getting silly.
manike
I think I must do, missus is being induced 2 weeks early cos my , "Junior Sparklie Chick" is huge.
Whatever the law it is still a shame.
missus is being induced 2 weeks early cos my , "Junior Sparklie Chick" is huge. Whatever the law it is still a shame.
Lke i said back it up with evidence.
You are mincing with words. In regards to the law lethal wounds are anything more than trivial injury (light bruising). Losing an eye is not trivial. Bleeding is more than light bruising. The UKPSF say that paintball markers are firearms. The law says that paintball markers are firearms.
You are mincing with words. In regards to the law lethal wounds are anything more than trivial injury (light bruising). Losing an eye is not trivial. Bleeding is more than light bruising. The UKPSF say that paintball markers are firearms. The law says that paintball markers are firearms.
Oh for christs sake
The Law does not state air rifles or indeed pistols are firearms unless they breach
6ft/lbs for pistols and
12ft/lbs for rifles
go away and read things properly.
1ft/lbs is a stupid figure and is probably wrong.
I can walk into any shop, buy an air rifle and walk away with it. I DO NOT NEED A FIREARMS LICENCE, if what you are saying is true the ENTIRE air arms business in the United Kingdom is illegal unless they are licenced operators and the purchasers have firearms certificates.
I don't care what you quote, 15 years experience of buying and shooting air rifles on private land and in clubs tells me you're totally and utterly wrong.
Every air rifle shop that sells pistols and rifles under 6/12ft/lbs to normal people tells you you're wrong.
Every airgunner owning an air powered weapon in the UK tells you you're wrong.
Every airgun magazine will tell you you're wrong
The police will tell you you're wrong.
If what you are saying is true then I and many other people have unlicenced firearms in our houses that, in my case, not only do the police know about but aren't in the slightest bit bothered about. **** I've been pulled over in a car with an uncased air rifle in the back of it and never had a copper blink, no arrest, no request to provide my firearms licence, no armed response units to detain the firearm carrying nutter.
Tells me something about air rifles and firearms that does!
In fact on the way to a training day in wales the other week I got pulled by plod and after a quick explanation that the stuff in the boot was paintball gear I had a nice chat with them and went on my merry way. Not a mention of firearms because paintball markers = air rifles= firearms.
Now stop trying to convince the world that paintball markers are firearms because I remember all the crap that Andy, (Fat Bob) and Manike are on about and we REALLY don't need to go through all that again.
BTW Lethal wounds mean wounds that have caused death, hence lethal. Wounds more serious than bruising that have not caused death are dealt with under the actual bodily harm sections of the law, to imply that, say, a gash on the cheek is a lethal wound is stupid and wholly inaccurate. You're, (IMO deliberately), misinterpreting segments of law to back up your, (extremely thin and inaccurate) argument of air rifles being firearms therefore paintball markers are firearms.
Give it up.
Mods, any chance you can delete this thread before somone outside the painball fraternity sees this rubbish and starts some bad press?
OK before you TRY to put me right why dont you read up on the subject.
Now I am going to quote the government. If I use long words that you may not understand then get a grown up to explain them to you.
OK i repeat this is the firearms law, not my opinion or something i heard from the pub.
Section 57 of the Firearms Act 1968 defines a firearm as a lethal barrelled weapon capable of the discharge of any shot, bullet or other missile. Thus, in order to be classed as a firearm, an object must be a weapon, it must have a barrel through which some kind of missile is fired and the effect of the missile on the target must be lethal
Lethality is defined as "capable of inflicting a more than trivial injury"—a trivial injury being one in which only superficial damage such as bruising occurs. In essence, if the pellet from a particular gun is capable of penetrating the skin, that gun is a firearm.
At a step up from airsoft guns are low-powered airguns. These are pistols with muzzle energies below six foot pounds but greater than one foot pound and rifles with muzzle energies between three-quarters of a foot pound and 12 foot pounds. Due to their comparatively low power, the law does not require these to be kept on a police-issued firearm certificate or otherwise licensed but, because they are capable of inflicting a penetrating wound, they are nonetheless classed as "firearms
The accepted caselaw for the muzzle energy at which lethal injury can be inflicted is Moore v Gooderam (1961) in which it was held that the threshold is one foot pound (About 1.35 joules). Thus, any weapon with a muzzle energy of less than one foot pound is not a firearm in law and does not fall under the control of the firearms legislation. Any gun with a muzzle energy of one foot pound or greater is a firearm and comes under the control of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended).
OK can you understand the above?
Oh look air rifles are classed as firearms.
Oh look again one foot pound or more is classed as lethal.
Why should this be deleted? All it is proving is that people need to be clued up on the law and paintball.
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/uc95/uc9504.htm
Thats a link to the government website with all the info if you still dont believe me.
Now I am going to quote the government. If I use long words that you may not understand then get a grown up to explain them to you.
OK i repeat this is the firearms law, not my opinion or something i heard from the pub.
Section 57 of the Firearms Act 1968 defines a firearm as a lethal barrelled weapon capable of the discharge of any shot, bullet or other missile. Thus, in order to be classed as a firearm, an object must be a weapon, it must have a barrel through which some kind of missile is fired and the effect of the missile on the target must be lethal
Lethality is defined as "capable of inflicting a more than trivial injury"—a trivial injury being one in which only superficial damage such as bruising occurs. In essence, if the pellet from a particular gun is capable of penetrating the skin, that gun is a firearm.
At a step up from airsoft guns are low-powered airguns. These are pistols with muzzle energies below six foot pounds but greater than one foot pound and rifles with muzzle energies between three-quarters of a foot pound and 12 foot pounds. Due to their comparatively low power, the law does not require these to be kept on a police-issued firearm certificate or otherwise licensed but, because they are capable of inflicting a penetrating wound, they are nonetheless classed as "firearms
The accepted caselaw for the muzzle energy at which lethal injury can be inflicted is Moore v Gooderam (1961) in which it was held that the threshold is one foot pound (About 1.35 joules). Thus, any weapon with a muzzle energy of less than one foot pound is not a firearm in law and does not fall under the control of the firearms legislation. Any gun with a muzzle energy of one foot pound or greater is a firearm and comes under the control of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended).
OK can you understand the above?
Oh look air rifles are classed as firearms.
Oh look again one foot pound or more is classed as lethal.
Why should this be deleted? All it is proving is that people need to be clued up on the law and paintball.
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/uc95/uc9504.htm
Thats a link to the government website with all the info if you still dont believe me.
I cannot believe what you are trying to do!
This whole thread has turned into you PUBLICALLY linking paintball markers to FIREARMS.
To the ordinary bod that reads FIREARM they read GUN, something that kills people, not a load of data from the government.
I frankly cannot believe anyone would stir this all up. I've been through this once before and that came from outside the game.
There is no inconsistency, Paintball markers fall under the same rulings under law as Air Rifles. That's all that needs to be said.
Linking to Firearms!, based on what is widely accepted, (not just here but in the airgun world), to be a badly worder piece of legislation is bloody irresponsible.
Or maybe you don't believe there are people in the world out to get us?
Falling under Firearms regulations is one thing, describing them as firearms is entirely different. The forensic evedenc as Manike says was done with syringes and needles and airgun pellets, not paintballs. I can throw a syringe at you and have it breach the skin!
If you can't see that hand your marker in for destructuion at your local police satation and quit playing.
By the way, to sort one thing out from te legislation you quote
It must be borne in mind, however, that not all airguns can be classed as "firearms".
There's that set of figures I quoted, funny that isn't it.
a trivial injury being one in which only superficial damage such as bruising occurs. In essence, if the pellet from a particular gun is capable of penetrating the skin, that gun is a firearm.
The eye isn't considered medically to be a part of the skin, the skin is much tougher than the eye. An airsoft weapon will breach the eye, that's why they wear goggles!
quote "if the pellet from a particular gun is capable of breaking the skin" The pellet fired by a paintball marker is a paintball, a projectile designed to break on impact rather than penetrate. Linking paintballs with damaging projectiles is again irresponsible, stupid and inaccurate.
and I want this deleting before your quotes end up in a magazine somewhere under "Paintballers declare their sport illegal under UK law" and start quoting the misleading stuff you are.
Dude I am not saying I agree with this. This all came about because markers were being sold illegally. If people do not know the law and then break it do you think thats good for paintball?
Whether you like it or not its the law. Markers are classed as air rifles and since they fire above 1ft/lb they are classed as firearms.
That means anything which is classed as an air rifle.
just because they are classed as firearms doesnt make them illegal. Whatever tests were done with syringes is irrelevent. They are air rifles and must obey all laws pertaining to air rifles.
That means nothing but semi auto and cannot fire above 330fps.
At a step up from airsoft guns are low-powered airguns. These are pistols with muzzle energies below six foot pounds but greater than one foot pound and rifles with muzzle energies between three-quarters of a foot pound and 12 foot pounds. Due to their comparatively low power, the law does not require these to be kept on a police-issued firearm certificate or otherwise licensed but, because they are capable of inflicting a penetrating wound, they are nonetheless classed as "firearms
I am trying to ensure that people do not misuse paintball markers.
What do you think is more damaging? Trying to educate people on the law or letting illegal markers to be sold?
Again I say Post up evidence contrary to what I have written.
Whether you like it or not its the law. Markers are classed as air rifles and since they fire above 1ft/lb they are classed as firearms.
That means anything which is classed as an air rifle.
just because they are classed as firearms doesnt make them illegal. Whatever tests were done with syringes is irrelevent. They are air rifles and must obey all laws pertaining to air rifles.
That means nothing but semi auto and cannot fire above 330fps.
At a step up from airsoft guns are low-powered airguns. These are pistols with muzzle energies below six foot pounds but greater than one foot pound and rifles with muzzle energies between three-quarters of a foot pound and 12 foot pounds. Due to their comparatively low power, the law does not require these to be kept on a police-issued firearm certificate or otherwise licensed but, because they are capable of inflicting a penetrating wound, they are nonetheless classed as "firearms
I am trying to ensure that people do not misuse paintball markers.
What do you think is more damaging? Trying to educate people on the law or letting illegal markers to be sold?
Again I say Post up evidence contrary to what I have written.
You agree that paintball markers are air rifles under the law. So it is irrelevent to what damage they do (but since protective items are mandatory then they must be capable of causing more than trivial damage).