Paintball Markers no longer on E-Bay

[crom-dubh]

Section 57 of the Firearms Act 1968 defines a firearm as a lethal barrelled weapon capable of the discharge of any shot, bullet or other missile. Thus, in order to be classed as a firearm, an object must be a weapon, it must have a barrel through which some kind of missile is fired and the effect of the missile on the target must be lethal.

Lethality is defined as "capable of inflicting a more than trivial injury"—a trivial injury being one in which only superficial damage such as bruising occurs. In essence, if the pellet from a particular gun is capable of penetrating the skin, that gun is a firearm.

Expert advice from the Forensic Science Service is that the lowest power level at which a penetrating injury can occur is at a muzzle energy of about one foot pound, which roughly equates to 1.35 joules.

At a step up from airsoft guns are low-powered airguns. These are pistols with muzzle energies below six foot pounds but greater than one foot pound and rifles with muzzle energies between three-quarters of a foot pound and 12 foot pounds. Due to their comparatively low power, the law does not require these to be kept on a police-issued firearm certificate or otherwise licensed but, because they are capable of inflicting a penetrating wound, they are nonetheless classed as "firearms". (Appendix A)

The accepted caselaw for the muzzle energy at which lethal injury can be inflicted is Moore v Gooderam (1961) in which it was held that the threshold is one foot pound (About 1.35 joules). Thus, any weapon with a muzzle energy of less than one foot pound is not a firearm in law and does not fall under the control of the firearms legislation. Any gun with a muzzle energy of one foot pound or greater is a firearm and comes under the control of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended).


AND THAT IS THE LAW

 

[Little Jon]

my air rifle has a 12 pound spring on it
my airsoft desert eagle puts out 0.5 joules and stings like a biatch

 

[Fat Bob's Paintball]

That may be correct, however there is a 1986 amendment to the firearms law which states that any smooth bored weapon less than 36" long and capable of firing more than 3 shots is classed as a firearm.

If you go into toys r us you can buy a ping pong ball firing gun for 99p that is smooth bored, less that 36" long and is capable of firing 4 balls.

Paintball markers were put under airgun legislation after a court battle about 8 years ago (some of you will remember the SOS save our sport competitions to raise money for the fighting fund), which is where the fully auto problem comes in and hence the reason e-bay have banned paintball guns from their auctions.

The authorities now consider paintball markers as recreational equipment (toys, so fully auto does not matter) in practical terms, but under the law they are still air guns and hence the problem.

E bay have no understanding of this, they are based in America. All they see is a problem in the uk, so rather than find out all the facts, they just think, oh well we may make £200 a year less and in the big scheme of things who cares, lets just get rid of the problem.

Perhaps if people were to give e-bay the facts then they may re-consider and this would be sorted out once and for all.

Andy
Fat Bob's Paintball

 

[crom-dubh]

I dont see where the problem lies.
Ebay.co.uk do not allow firearms of any description to be sold. Paintball markers ARE firarms. End of story.

Ebay.com do allow paintball markers and airsoft weapons to be sold because the law in the USA is different.



Fat Bob

Paintball markers are not seen as recreational equipment by the authorities. They are seen as firearms. So the full auto thing IS an issue.

Just because the authorities are sympathetic to ballers doesnt mean that they bwill change the law.

 

[crom-dubh]

I quote Fat Bob

"That may be correct, however there is a 1986 amendment to the firearms law which states that any smooth bored weapon less than 36" long and capable of firing more than 3 shots is classed as a firearm.

If you go into toys r us you can buy a ping pong ball firing gun for 99p that is smooth bored, less that 36" long and is capable of firing 4 balls."

The ammendment is only applicable to shotguns, not air rifles. Remember a gun has to fire over 1ft/lbs to be covered by the firarms laws.

 

[Fat Bob's Paintball]

The 1986 amendment does not just effect shotguns, it was a rushed through bill after the Hungerford massacre and was not thought through.

The police took a site to court in about 1993 using this ammendment as justification as the site was running Splatmaster Rapides.

After a long court case paintball guns were eventually put into airgun legislation on the back of around 200 other bills that were being pushed through at the time. This again was wrong as the paintball industry wanted paintball guns to be classed on their own. However it takes years to get a law put on the statute books so the industry just happy they were no longer section 5 firearms.

So paintball guns are in law, air guns and must not shoot over 12 foot pounds. This is around 380 fps depending on the paint used (this again is stupid).

Paintball guns are not seen in law as recreational equipment, by law they are still air weapons and restricted by airgun legislation, that is why you cannot have full auto.

In practice the authorities prefer to see them as recreational equipment and treat them as such. This is still a grey area, but in our opinion it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

People within the paintball industry and in this forum cannot aggree on the classification of paintball markers so how can e-bay expect to know what to do.

So to reply, paintball markers are not seen as firearms by the authorities, they are seen as air weapons. Fully auto air weapons are illegal in this country which is why fully auto paintball markers are frowned upon.

andy

 

[crom-dubh]

Dude
air weapons which fire over 1ft/lb are firearms. Just because you dont need a licence for them doesnt change this. There are different classifications of firearms, air weapons are one of them.

 

[The New Paddy]

What is the big deal not selling "markers" on ebay we still have p8ntballer

 

[manike]

Air weapons are non-lethal barrelled weapons. and as such are classed as air weapons and NOT firearms. Please don't go around suggesting that your marker is a fire arm. Expect to get arrested if you do, since I doubt you or any of us have a fire arms certificate.

They used to check for lethality by muzzle loading what ever they liked (typically syringes!) but now it has to be loaded with the intended projectiles by the intended feed method. Under such circumstances even if a paintball were solid, it would be unlikely to puncture the skin (leaves a great bruise as we all know from bouncers though) and thus it's a non-lethal barreled weapon.

The muzzle energy for such an item is 12 ft/lbs before it becomes classed as a firearm.

Paintball guns velocity is specifically limited to keep them under 12ft lbs and thus in the non-lethal barrel category and thus an air weapon and not a fire arm.

The velocity of a marker before it becomes a firearm is actually around 340fps with most modern paints which weigh from 50-54 grains. As you use heavier paint that velocity limit comes down.

They are NOT firearms.

There is some discussion at the moment as to wether or not within air weapon law, FA is allowed. It's a complex series of regulations to work through. I don't want to have to test it in a court of law though.

In essence though markers are non-lethal barrelled weapons up to a 12ft/lbs muzzle energy and as such are classed as air weapons. They are only classed at fire arms if you take the velocity up such that the muzzle energy is over 12ft/lbs.

manike

 

[Cube]

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Dude
air weapons which fire over 1ft/lb are firearms. Just because you dont need a licence for them doesnt change this. There are different classifications of firearms, air weapons are one of them.

I can probably fart harder than 1ft/lb 12ft/lb is the limit for an air rifle becoming classifed as a firearm. Or at least it always was when I was airgunning.

I'll assume you missed a key out