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Opus Finale .... A Warts an' all Exposé of Paintball's Very Own Megalomaniac

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WarFighters

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2013
61
150
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Phil, I belive that some companies hold employer liability cover and not public. Sio their staff are covered, but not the players.

I can't see basic insurance cover being multi site either, especially when the events operator openly admits that the site is not built for paintball. That in itself should attract the need to product RAMS that are only for that intended venue.
I remember Shoreline informing the community that they should always ask the operator for proof of insurance.

The irony!
 

rewind

Shiny!
Aug 28, 2008
330
83
48
Kent
For anything the RAMs need to be in place and reviewed regularly. I work in construction and have the power to stop any works on site if I see a failing and there arent the adequate RAMS in place. The contractors even need to prove the workers on site have read said RAMS and are aware of them.
Im not sure how this directly translates to events, but I assume its a similar process.
RAMS made aware to the punters playing, they sign saying they are aware of the risks highlighted and carry on. (Much like a rental site).
I would have thought those should satisfy any event H&S requirements at a minimum. The site owners owe due care to anyone on their land, and so will want to see any RAMS or insurance etc to limit there own liability, (again, assumption made).
 

Frenshy

Active Member
Sep 19, 2003
109
80
38
warpedsports.com
I have to ask a question here and this goes out to the game organizers.

Now, I work within the Insurance industry and am fully aware of H&S and all that is associated to it. My question is the following, if you own your own site you Should have Insurance and have carried out adequate safety checks as this would need to be checked if a claim were to occur, if its your own site and you dont have the cover then you are a fool but thats another story. The issue I see is that any organizer that wants to use some sort of MoD site or other type of venue must surely have had to show they have Public Liability Cover - I cannot believe that any person is let on site without showing this type of cover (I bet there are loads of tradesman type of people that are members here that are not let on site without showing their own cover).

So my real problem with all of this is that either the MoD sites Are not asking for any type of insurance cover OR said person has some sort of moody documentation ???
For North V South we have a full Health & Safety Policy, and extensive Risk Assessment amended for each event to take into account changing physical risks at the venue and changing risks associated with our activities and games. We have £5,000,000 public liability cover. We submit data sheets for all paintballs shot (there are natural water courses with fish and wildlife). All of this is required by our MOD license.
In addition, since 2013, when someone sent a dossier to the local licensing department with images of strippers and accusations of "lewd behaviour" (images of 2 guys doing air guitar on stage who got over zealous!) - we now have a full Event Plan, Protection of Minors policy, and operate with an official Event Notice granted by the County Council, We liaise with local Trading Standards (alcohol & minors) and local police (to monitor disruption to neighbours and local village). All of this is time consuming and costly, but worth it to know that everyone is safe and the authorities are on side. Also, since this years (2015) even we were informed that there was a hightened security state at the base and strongly prompted to suggest what we would be doing to recognise and deal with the increased threat whilst we were effectively the temporary custodians of the site (hence the additional security checks on arrival).

So, how does TB get away with doing less? (as all accounts would suggest!) I have a simple explanation..

Although much of the MOD booking process is effectively outsourced to a Facilities Management company, the training areas fall into regions, There are different staff for each region and there are the local staff and Commandant for each training area - and there seems to be a site by site approach taken to many of these issues. To demonstrate this I will give an example...

Gareth from Urban uses MOD training areas and has been told by his local contacts that coloured paint may not be used and hence uses clear. In fact 7 years ago when Warped first approached the MOD we were told they didnt really care provided we left the area "as found". In other words we can shoot what we like provided its safe and we clean it up to their satisfaction. So from day one we had an agreement with our local Commandant to use coloured paint but clean it up. We spend 4-5 days post event cleaning up including jetwashing down the walls of the buildings which have been heavily used, roadsweeping the unbroken balls up. degreasing floors etc. The area is then inspected and signed off by MOD staff in sections.

We still use coloured paint and the commandant is still very happy. Im pretty sure that if we had gone year 2 to any other training area we would have made the same arrangement. If some areas are now "banning" coloured paint then I would suggest that has been down to local incidents or experience with other promoters since we started? We think that NvS would be a much poorer event with clear paint, which works well Im sure for smaller games where the "honour" system can be more effective. I believe clear paint for big games is nothing more than a con, charge more for the "special" clear ball and then also save thousands of pounds on clean-up !

Add regional staff views into the mix and its very possible that there are very varied approaches at different MOD sites, across a wide range of subjects including the whole H&S, insurance etc area. Although I have to say that the License we sign APPEARS to be universal which does puzzle me.
 
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smudgerebt

Rockin VIP Cocker, So-Manc E1, LV1
Apr 19, 2014
777
138
78
Near Stockport
One of the quickest ways to get rid of TB would be to stage similar events but with better organisation.

If no-one else does the games like scrap yard, theme park, prison, then the players will keep going to TB.

I like the idea of these games and will pay a premium to play them (£125 for 2 days, food paint etc is a decent price for me) but if TB is the only one doing them......

(And no still wont go to a game by him)
 

rewind

Shiny!
Aug 28, 2008
330
83
48
Kent
This just boils to the age old adum of money talks.
Support with your wallet
One of the quickest ways to get rid of TB would be to stage similar events but with better organisation.

If no-one else does the games like scrap yard, theme park, prison, then the players will keep going to TB.

I like the idea of these games and will pay a premium to play them (£125 for 2 days, food paint etc is a decent price for me) but if TB is the only one doing them......

(And no still wont go to a game by him)
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
I think Smudger makes an extremely valid point - I think as soon as barnett fuhks off out of it, other companies will attempt to fill the void left by him.
It might be an opportunity for people like the Warped guys, Ged Green and the Mayhem lads down at Abridge to get their fingers out and start doing some groundwork in anticipation of barnett's exodus.
It makes sense to start now because even if he ain't gone by the time people start to offer alternate type events, you are providing another option for people who still go to barnett's events.
 

smudgerebt

Rockin VIP Cocker, So-Manc E1, LV1
Apr 19, 2014
777
138
78
Near Stockport
Your right money does talk.

And i will spend that money on the games that are different, but if no-one does them then they cant have my money.

So its alright saying dont give TB your money, but i want to play those places, mates want to play those places, but until another organiser starts doing them.

So yes i have voted with my wallet, but as such have missed out on some epic places.

Now if Urban, Warped etc did one in a castle, salt mine, cruise ship, then am in.
 

Blackwing

Member
Sep 7, 2015
14
16
13
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...if somebody decide to create one island game again, I am willing to lower the price for renting the island as much as possible, just to close TB mouth how he create "amazing" world famous island game in Croatia...maybe that way, with afordable game price, he would lose many of his customers and people could see that there are plenty of other very good game organizers...
 

Lee Wickham

Active Member
Jul 7, 2008
42
131
43
...if somebody decide to create one island game again, I am willing to lower the price for renting the island as much as possible, just to close TB mouth how he create "amazing" world famous island game in Croatia...maybe that way, with afordable game price, he would lose many of his customers and people could see that there are plenty of other very good game organizers...
pm me your contact details...
 
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