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Okay, on this whole reunification thing...

Gyroscope

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Aug 11, 2002
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Sort of "fake it 'til you make it?" I'll buy that. PSP has the format more players want to play, gun rules that seem to work uniformly, and no clue how to cater to people who aren't playing at the moment. NPPL is focused on getting more people to see paintball, whatever that is. They produce a hell of a lot of press releases. Thay also seem to provide some value to sponsors, using their mailing list to send me ads every week or two. "Exciting news from the NPPL: Redz is offering something with NO neoprene!"
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
I wouldn't call the 3 year plan 'fake it till you make it'.

Remember, there were no 'national leagues' at the time - just individual promoters, some of whom had a circuit.

The general idea was that NPPL would be a rules and oversite organization, hiring promoters (not that it turned out that way); we had 28 teams that travelled the country. With our attendance, ANY promoter would 'make it', without, they wouldn't even be able to 'fake it'.

We had to first figure out what rules we wanted (I wish the whole meeting had been recorded; the 'I'll accept a rule to deal with my preferred method of cheating if you accept a rule to deal with your preferred method of cheating' session was LEGENDARY. The request to include pantyhose in the allowed clothing category and the ensuing 'discussion' were worth the price of admission alone...)

How many events, where, how many refs, how to train refs, scoring systems, seeding, ranking, series points - these were all serious issues that needed at least a season to sort out.

Then we looked at the paintball community. We knew that store and field traffic was down in a local area near a major event - how would we go about getting 'all' paintballers to visit the event on a given weekend.

After all, if we couldn't get our own people to an event, what made us think we had a hope of getting the great unwashed public there?

This is where the 'plan' began to fall apart. No one wanted to spend any serious time on marketing, and some of the 'promoters' we 'hired' were reluctant to spend dollars on speculation. Since the NPPL had already lost control of the cash flow by year two, and marketing was reduced to me making 600 to 1200 worth of phone calls a month (with no promise of recompense).....

We had ideas on the table - a free trade show section for local stores and fields, incentives in the form of free entry tickets to local businesses, that sort of thing.

Since I knew that outside interest would only really respond if it looked like the league had a 'following' (presumably the non-tournament playing paintballers), there was no point in trying to bring those folks in.

I'll say this knowing that the statement itself will bring charges of bias: I was fortunate enough this year to be able to attend PSP Orlando and NPPL Tampa almost back to back. The differences were dramatic.

NPPL 'looked' professional. PSP looked 'lost' in the parking lot. NPPL's trade show was hopping and crowded, with smiling vendors in attendance. PSP's trade show was quiet, until they turned on the sound system right next to the scoring and scheduling tent, rendering it impossible to talk there. The only real activity was at the backend of the paint trailers.

All of the teams at NPPL seemed excited to be there. Several of the five player teams at PSP complained to me (unsolicited) that they felt like they were an afterthought. Likewise, some of the vendors complained to me that they'd been stuck out in the hinterlands.

Scheduling at NPPL was crisp, at PSP it was lackluster. Attendance of non players at NPPL was obvious, at PSP, almost non-existent. (The college parents in attendance also had a thing or two to say - things like 'this is what they get for their money'? - which were followed by my explanations of NCPA having to piggyback on other events and therefore was not really responsible: all Raehl discussions aside, I really believe in college ball and wish it were better supported.)

All in all, if I were an outsider looking to get involved, I'd be more attracted by the NPPL and its energy and the obvious enthusiasm of the fans.

It may be that in the long run, paintball tournaments will have to embrace a variety of formats and competitions (much like some of the extreme sports festivals) in order to really reach its audience - and paintball hasn't really decided yet whether it wants to come across as a 'traditional' sport or an 'extreme' sport.
 
D

duffistuta

Guest
Originally posted by SteveD


and paintball hasn't really decided yet whether it wants to come across as a 'traditional' sport or an 'extreme' sport.
I've banged on about this before - IMO it is absolutely key. Not just what it wants to 'come across as' but what it wants to be. Everything from format to presentation to marketing is linked into taking one of these two roads.

I think the NPPL wants the latter and I think it is right, but the industry is pulling both ways pretty equally as I see it.

You know what the main problem with Paintball as extreme sport/lifestyle choice is? The way it differs from every single other extreme sport?

You can't play by yourself.

Everything else - mountain biking, boarding, skating, whatever - can be done in a truly recreational sense - either by yourself or with friends. Paintball cannot. (The term rec-ball makes me laugh - you can't play rec-ball; Paintball HAS to be competitive by its very nature.)

Further, all can be judged in both competitive and non-competitive (i.e. aesthetic) terms. Paintball cannot.

This could be Paintball's greatest strength (the only extreme team sport on the planet) but as it is, it is causing us problems and leading to the trad sport/extreme sport divide.
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
duffi,

there was a time when paintball could have seized the moment and been crowned as the worlds only EXTREME TEME sport.

another opportunity bites the dust due to myopic vision.

(oooo that penny is soooo SHINY...)

The eggheads at SGMA categorized it as extreme - most likley because they didn't want the marketing numbers of the phenomena that paintball was back then to negatively affect the other 'mainstream' sports numbers. (Can't have this upstart making football sales look bad...)

So here we sit - an outcast in an orphanage - the kid that NEVER gets adopted and ends up a sick, twisted and demented scourge of society, a three-namer in the headlines accused and convicted of unspeakable crimes, raped and eventually killed in prison, lying in a numbered grave.....
 
Originally posted by SteveD
a three-namer in the headlines accused and convicted of unspeakable crimes, raped and eventually killed in prison, lying in a numbered grave.....
:D :D :D

Excellent work duder - that made my hole weak.

I mean my whole week.

Tha prison sex would probably make your ho...but I digress.

So tell me Stevio Davidikoff, who is tha white knight riding to save us? Is it really college ball? If unification went off, would certain powers that be pull away and join tha NXL onto the college league? Now that would be a smart move...
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
stevio davidikoff?

Not. Most of the family is from Russia, but I'm adopted and can claim an Irish heritage...

I only mentioned NCPA as part of the 'color' going on at the event.

I mentioned my enthusiasm for college ball because I know what a great marketing tool it is.

The NBA here goes up and down in popularity - college hoops remain steady.

College football is nearly as popular as the NFL.

Both are seed beds for the professional arm.

Many large companies here in the states spend huge dollars marketing to college students because they know they are at the age where they are making lifetime decisions and choices. If you can get them to start using Mennen deoderant in college, chances are they'll be buying it for the rest of their lives.

(One free applicator that costs maybe five bucks total to put into a kids hands, in exchange for a lifetime of buying maybe 40 five dollar applicators a year? who doesn't get that equation.)

Different subject, but the industry has not done right by the 'next generation' of players.

Who's the white knight? not sure. Other folks on here have made suggestions as to who it might be. Maybe I'll get a chance to meet with some of them at the Cup.

You know what I want and will never get? Power and glory aside, I really only started my efforts in the direction of tournament ball back in '89 because I24 wanted to be playing in front of the camera in a REAL sport.

Now that that will no longer happen for me, I still want others to be able to do the same. I could care less if its my format or someone elses, as long as it does the things its SUPPOSED to do as a professional sport:

unimpeachable officiating, separate in every way from the industry
unimpeachable player classification system
no undue influence from the industry over results
standardization
affordability
upward mobility
serious effort at promoting the sport

We've gone over it and over it and over it, and 'tainting' issues have been around since at least 1983. That's 22 years ago my friends. What's not to get? The current ways of going about doing things are not working. It matters not whether these issues are real or imagined, since the perception is there.

What we need are some monied types with the BALLS to step up and put their money towards the basic underpinnings - focused not on a short term return, but on building something that they and everyone else can potentially benefit from. It would take a REAL man to drop the dollars for training an independant reffing crew and setting up an escrow system for pay, knowing that once the dollars left their hands they'd have no say over it any more. It would take real cajones - a huge swinging set - to put personalities aside and agree to reunification, not of one league with another, but with the goal of encompassing all the leagues and creating the governing body we need.

I know if I had those kinds of dollars, I'd be doing it right now - easy to say since I can't afford it - but I could afford the bucks to start the outside player registration system and offered to do so here a few months back.

It really pisses me off that those with the means can't seem to recognize that if they gave up a few dollars and then STEPPED BACK, they'd end up with EVERYTHING they're looking for, and then some, and the rest of us would have what we're looking for.

sorry - no white knight, but even without one, we're still tilting at windmills.
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Jul 9, 2001
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You know what the main problem with Paintball as extreme sport/lifestyle choice is? The way it differs from every single other extreme sport?

You can't play by yourself.
If that was how you defined a sport as "extreme" - darts and pool would be considered extreme also ;)

Or - how about river rafting... that's an extreme sport you can't do on your own either (well ok - you might, but you'd need a really small raft ;)

Question is what really defines a sport as "extreme"?

Some might say it would have to be extremely dangerous (relatively to other sports) or extremely difficult?

Other might say it would need to be extremely rare?

- but none of those definitions really apply to paintball anymore (if ever).

I think paintball should try and depart from the "extreme" label - as many people get the wrong associations when they hear the word.

We as paintballers might like to think of ourselves as "extreme" - but we are really not... the sport is less physically chalenging than most other sports, the sport is no longer really a "fringe sport" and giving people the perception that they would be doing something "extreme" when they play paintball - is quite possibly exactly what we don't want.... if we want the "masses" to take an interest.

Then again - I might be wrong - and paintball may only be marketable in a media sense as an extreme sport... ?

Nick
 

Xenos

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Aug 16, 2002
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I think it's extreme in that you get an adrenaline rush from it, but it's not as extreme as the more dangerous sports.

It's an odd one because it's not really dangerous, but it's not just standard sport like football either.
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
Nick,

we can't 'depart' from the extreme label. The marketing powers that be have "categorized" paintball as such. There are multiple years of demographic and marketing information now collected and collated and massaged with paintball in the extreme category.

People who play with numbers DO NOT like to change categories - because its time consuming, expensive, and it means that they got something wrong the first time around.

People who base their businesses on in-depth market reporting (like the SGMA supplies annually to television, print, radio and other media buyers, purchasers for major retail chains, and etc ad infinitum) now make their decisions with the idea fixee that paintball is an extreme sport. Changing will upset their applecart and will mean, once again, that they got it wrong the first time around.

People do not like to be wrong.

People with money decide what it right and what is wrong - whether they are right or wrong.

Paintball will be an extreme sport, through inertia, from now until the end of time.