Okay, on this whole reunification thing...

[Nick Brockdorff]

Chicago and RRI:

I don't think we are ever going to agree on this - apparently - so it's probably futile for me to keep on debating it.

Just just don't seem to get it

Nick

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Red Ring Inflictor
So Nick has a point that at the grass roots most people play a game closer to single-goal formats, that single goal being to eliminate the opposite team or to hang a flag. I would venture to say, however, that that is still mostly done in the woods thereby making it a far cry from anything that resembles current tournament PB.

Actually, nearly every time I've gone out to play with a group of players from a "group" of occasional players (people who generally rent, from a church or birthday or work group), we've kept the same teams all day and also kept score - if you didn't know which team won the most games during the day, you didn't know who you were supposed to be poking fun at at the bar afterwards.

Keeping score over time is so natural that I've seen it happen pretty much every time I've ever played a sport.

 

[Red Ring Inflictor]

Originally posted by Chicago
Keeping score over time is so natural that I've seen it happen pretty much every time I've ever played a sport.

That's true according to my American experience with such and sometimes true according to my European experience. I think Americans tend to be much more consistently competitive generally speaking. But on both sides of the Atlantic such games seem to be much more fun oriented without much strictness regarding the rules and effectively without refs (and I've definitely seen cheating during fun games on both sides of the ocean). That (not the cheating) combined with the woods makes for quite a difference compared with tournament PB.

 

[SteveD]

The problem with the current 'x-ball is not more expensive' arguments is that they are argued from a theoretical point of view.

A 'team' plays a full game - regardless of how much play time is in it. If the event calls for 8 five minute games - they play eight games and it costs them what it costs them. If the event calls for 12 30 minute games, that's what they play and it costs them what it costs them.

When someone collects the bucks for the paint bill, 20 players into 100 cases is 5 cases per player, 10 players into 25 cases is 2.5. Doesn't matter how many minutes it took to shoot it all, the paint bill coming out of the pocket is still bigger.

Likewise, when it comes to sponsorship, someone footing the entire bill for an xball team is paying way more per year than someone footing the bill for a 7 player team. The sponsor doesn't care how many game minutes each player got, his concern is 20 round trip tickets versus 10.

Theoretically, the paint consumption might come out roughly equal - but when it comes down to taking money out of your own personal wallet, one is more expensive than the other.

Pete - I don't come on here to discuss issues over which I have no control or influence - I come on here to find out what other people are thinking about those issues, to bounce a few ideas off of some other intelligent, experienced ballers and maybe learn a thing or two.

Everyone once and a while I hope that the powers that be might see something I said and give it a thought or two, but I'm certainly not expecting a letter with a check in the mail.

 

[SteveD]

hoorah for whoever said we've got to keep an open mind because the right format might not even be in existence now.

One of the planks for the original NPPL was to establish a 'development committee' that would actively work on future-thinking rule and format changes.

Sadly, what we're looking for could have had 12+ years of work done on it already, since the original folks at NPPL thought that was a silly waste of time.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by SteveD
Pete - I don't come on here to discuss issues over which I have no control or influence - I come on here to find out what other people are thinking about those issues, to bounce a few ideas off of some other intelligent, experienced ballers and maybe learn a thing or two.

Everyone once and a while I hope that the powers that be might see something I said and give it a thought or two, but I'm certainly not expecting a letter with a check in the mail.

Steve, paintball has taught me many things, one of which is, 'cynicism' isn't always misplaced when considering the hiercrchy of decision makers and rationale they employ.

Now and again those outside the elite 'select' few are listened to but only if it co-incides with what the select few wanna do anyway

Still, at least it gives the illusion of a democratic input which should calm Baca's troubled brow for a while until he works out the real dynamics

However, the process of integration that is being embarked upon now, of which the format is obviosuly under discussion, has a degree of urgency about it and also a priority chain that hasn't got the format at the top of the agenda.
The... 'devil is always in the detail Peter'...... as Sergey constantly reminds me

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Robbo
Still, at least it gives the illusion of a democratic input which should calm Baca's troubled brow for a while until he works out the real dynamics

Now who's living in a dream world?

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Now who's living in a dream world?

...the fact that you would be calmed or the fact you had managed to work it out.......

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Robbo
...the fact that you would be calmed or the fact you had managed to work it out.......

Both.

 

[Robbo]

Paul, for somebody who is as intelligent as you, it surprises me you don the mantle of Don Quixote and and get frustrated when you can’t spear the windmill.

Most aspects of the free world have this lineage of responsibility whereby the people who have the money and position also have the power to decide.
I think Paintball (in its present state of evolution) places you (personally) in close proximity to these decision makers giving you the illusion that you can and should influence proceedings.
So near yet so far mate; frustrating yes, but just as real as any man in the street failing to influence any of IBM's decisions, well maybe not that distant but you get my point.

All we can do is hope their criterion for integration parallels some of ours because I got a lot more to lose than most in all this if the cut line is too far down the NPPL league qualifiers in accommodating the NXL’ers.
Would kinda grate on me if some teams who play in the Super League next year (if it happens) haven’t invested one cent in the NPPL whereas I had put virtually everything.