Oh what tangled webs we weave ...

[Gadget]

Correction. Accounts are done by Suzy Barnett who does all of Shorelines accounts. The council are allocating the distribution of funds with assistance from Social Services and the Royal British Legion.

Sounds sensible to have an independent 3rd party of good standing deal with allocation of funds, that avoids any accusations of misappropriation. From what I've read on S4S it has always been the case that accounts will be published once all the funding has been allocated.

With regard to Sennybridge (thanks for the correction Robeenio), I understand that a contract with the MOD exists for TC2012 and the booking is confirmed (the BBC article was over a month ago), so the event is at no more risk than any other held on MOD training facilities. Hopefully that should set people's minds at rest.

 

[Echowitch]

I've just spoken to the councillor in question and he's confirmed Tim's story. He is sending me more details on Monday from his official Council email address. He did note that the current hold up on allocations is because he's waiting on the Welfare Office of the Royal British Legion. He was kind enough to give me that, despite the fact that I was committing a mortal sin by interrupting a Welshman watching Rugby

 

[Biscuit]

robbo as you say i may be naive in my thoughts ,but as you say there are people with in the industry that want these questions answered.
my first question would be who are they and why are they not asking the questions them selves.
if and i mean if mr barnett is proven correct then the person that is made out to be having a witch hunt as you have said is you,not the guys with in the industry that have raised their concerns with you.so my question too you is why are these guys not sticking their head above the wall to be shot at ,as you are

 

[RobbieG1966]

Some interesting points have been made. Post #156 above indicates contact details for the councillor were emailed to you Robbo. If this is true, have you contacted the councillor yet to corroborate or disprove what has been said re S4S?

Echowitch has obviously taken the time to contact said councillor as per post #162 and was able to confirm the relevant information.

I can certainly understand you will only believe information from your trusted sources, in this case wouldn't the councillor in question be someone whose word you would trust?

This conversation does seem to have gone very quiet on here now .... hopefully an end is in sight.

 

[flashdan]

I have just spent hours reading every post here and digesting the information one step at a time - I have been left a little disturbed and uneasy by most of the allagations / comments made. Not being involved in any sides atall that is all i will say on this matter, I have now made my own opinion up (which i will be keeping to myself) and will keep reading over the duration of the next few days and prey that some firm answers come to light as credibility and accountablility are being questioned which If directed towards me i would seek a quick resolve - personally i think if you have not got trust within a community especially if you are operating any business within it it cannot be good for anyone. Over the years i have seen Shoreline go from strengh to strength and always thought it cannot be a bad thing for the community but I for one know the bigger the machine the more accountable you are for all of your actions regardless how small.

Sadly i have opted out of TCUK due to my wife only being able to take her 2 weeks of holiday in July now and time with my family takes priority

I have noticed that there is a incresing divide between different sites and there associated fractions even before this thread started and it now seems a little clearer as to why and sadly inevitable that this thread would come out. One thing that has left me most disturbed is some peoples ineptitude to grab what this thread was started for - to get answers

I wholeheartedly believe that Pete started this thread as a third party to do just that and to witness personal attacks directed at him and other members for voicing concerns to seek the truth is unacceptable I really expected more out of such a great community this saddens me

I myself work in the Motor trade which has seen its tough times - I myself have only managed to succed by being transparent and work with integrity and honesty I hope this message reaches afar as i know some camps mentioned in this thread cannot post directly but i urge people that are involved to put out some home truths maybe even take some some heat and wipe slates clean (if needed) but bridges need to be built - isntt hat what S6 was all about in the first place? getting ballers to expierence different sites and link communities?

and one year on for one site to pull out for reasons unbeknown to me to then see another BIG game be put on two weeks before the sites own seperate event..... it never crossed my mind until after i started reading this but it just sets alarm bells off in my head that there may be more underlying - i sincerly hope im wrong

 

[FAMINE]

Has this councillor had the accounts for 3 months???
Seems to be a lot of time between the statement made and this guy distrubuting the money (i do realise that sometimes these things can be slow, but we were promised 7 days)
Also the councillor is distributing the money, fair enough. But surely a copy of accounts would still be held by whoever is managing the account. We could have had those figures a long time back and then updated once the money has been passed on.

Just a quick question - Does anyone know when DJ first asked for details??

I don't know why this is all taking so long, when surely all this information would have been available from the first instance. Personally if I had been asked such serious questions, I would have presented the facts straight away. By flaming and attacking people, insinuating affiliations, calling people liars and generally upsetting people will only raise suspicion. It seems that all this upset and confusion stems from the one place that could have put the argument to bed a long time ago. It does make you wonder why????

I personally only got involved in asking questions when my suspicions were raised after confusion over which charity was being supported. The response I received didn't really answer the question, TBH if it had been clear from the start I would never have got involved. If I hadn't been slated and attacked on forums I would also have probably just given up. It seems to me that instead of answering people, they just flame and attack hoping they will back down. A lot of people have, but I think now they have pushed a few people they maybe shouldn't have.

Maybe it would be constructive to make a clear list of all the current questions from the paintball community and see if they can answer them fully??
Lets give them a chance once and for all??

 

[FAMINE]

On a separate note, I am sad to say that I know of at least 2 teams (possibly 3) That have stated that once they have played the games they are already booked into, then they will no longer be playing shoreline events (there may well be more)
No matter what my issues are, It makes me a little sad to see teams moving away from events that should have been great. But I guess in this economic climate customers want to know that the games they book are going to be problem free.
Honesty and being open go a long way for any business and if customers don't feel that they are receiving these points, they will go elsewhere.
What really worries me is that I hope this isn't a downward spiral.
I may not like the way Shoreline conduct themselves, but I would hate to see the events disappear. I would rather they sort their **** out and respect the paintball community as a WHOLE

 

[Echowitch]

Famine, please go back and read my posts about the accounts to get your answers.

Regarding the time its taking to allocate the funds. Its Local Government working with two other organisations, so its going to be slow.

 

[Rebel Tackleberry]

Just for clarity here, both David Jacks and Jamie Powell posted on UK Scenario regarding Support 4 Soldiers. Both did so in an accusatory manner, implying that it was a scam.

Despite their continued statements that the issue has never been answered fully, such answers are still publicly available on the relevant threads for all to see.

http://ukscenario.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27042

I believe the response was also copied here on P8ntballer in response to similar rumour mongering here.

It would appear that some people are still trying to pull strings, choosing to ignore facts when it suits their own agenda. Robbo, you may have a legitimate gripe with Shoreline over the advertising, that's between you and Tim, but the S4S project involves others, including some prominent companies, council and social services that I'm sure you don't honestly believe are in on a wildly alleged scam.

Everything here seems to be 'he said, she said', rather than based on unbiased facts. From what I can see there are simple facts available for all to see and other information sent privately that could confirm the truth. I'd have thought it would be prudent to seek out those facts firsthand, and follow up other information, rather than rely on third parties. When you listen to hearsay then you have to afford both sides of the story equal merit before forming an individual opinion.

 

[Robbo]

Maybe it's just me but why wasn't this councillor guy mentioned 3 months ago with the associated with the associated date it was presented to the councillor for the very first time.
It's no good taking retrospective actions merely to staunch the questions being fired when we need to know what date this councillor received his instructions .... I haven't seen any reference to this councillor until now which is kinda strange when you factor in these questions originated 3 months ago.... If I went into a store somewhere and stole some products and then began to head for the door to walk out .... if nobody says anything or comes toward me then I keep on going ... but .... if a security guy comes my way and asks me what am I doing, I merely tell them, I'm just looking at other products and I was gonna pay after that ..... ... Actions will always speak louder than words and in this case, inaction is what sets this apart from other charity issues we have allowed on here ....
I have received so much information on this subject; I have no way of knowing if everything is truthful, or some of it is exaggerated or outright lies, I have to trust my judgement one way or the other.
Let’s face it here, it’s extremely rare where you get a multitude of people all lying their ass off … it just doesn’t happen that way.
We might get the occasional person who jumps on board lying his off but that’s about it … when you have a number of people all voicing the same problem with an individual, and that individual denying there’s a problem … then generally speaking, it’s the individual who’s lying.

One thing I need you guys to appreciate is this .... there was no way I could ignore what was put before me; As I said before and I'll say it again, I don’t give a sh!te if people think I’m being vindictive, for me, it’s all about raising the concerns of a lot of people had with barnett... I have been in this game for long enough to recognise the political problems faced when individuals go public especially when those individuals are in the industry.

It would be naive for me to think industry figures are free to say what they like, they are not but this should not preclude them getting in touch with someone who they believe can responsibly publish whatever it is that concerns them.
I am lucky inasmuch as I am in the industry but in my case, I am not bound by any industry constraints, I own a forum whose ethos is to discuss any problems that may arise within our sport.
Up until now, this forum has fulfilled its function in acting as a safety-valve for the players and also as an information bridge between players and industry.

There is NO way I am gonna cause problems just for the sake of it ... I have merely asked questions that needed asking and these questions have not ended up being deleted like they were before on barnett's forum.
I realsie barnett doesn't own the forum but that forum is effectively co-run by him ... it acts as barnett's mouth-piece.

I’m not gonna be deterred by anyone if I genuinely think there is a problem that needs to be addressed that will benefit our players [both tournament and rec/scenario] in the long run.
barnett broke his word to me, and in normal cases, that would generally have involved me just deleting his offending posts and then banning him for taking the pi$$ , no biggie, it's happened several times before with other people.

Everything else that has happened is as a direct result of industry people and individuals revealing their concerns to me, I think the original problem where barnett broke his word to me has acted as a springboard because when people knew I was pis$ed off with him, I then received a multitude of input from players and industry figures enlightening me to certain questions that they felt needed to be answered.

Those people in the industry who have provided information or their accounts of what did and didn't happen, are in my opinion, trustworthy.
I was asked by some of these guys to keep their names out of it but barnett knows full well who they are ... I will keep my word to the people just mentioned for several different reasons.
These people are not gonna make things up just for the sake of it.
I will readily concede that one of those industry figures has a vested interest in any demise or problems now faced by barnett and his company but I will add, I will NOT be used to attack someone if I suspect anything I’ve been told is BS, there has to be a core of truth running through it all.

The problem is though, it wasn't just one source here, it is considerably more than one source and so I tend to work on the practical premise of believing a consensus view.
If all the people concerned hold a similar position then I'm a lot more likely to apportion trust to whatever it is they are saying.
And so, today, I'm gonna spend my time going through everything that's been either emailed or said to me.
barnett has sent me an extensive account of what he feels is where people have gone wrong or indeed attempting to shaft him in the back.
I can only use my judgement on any information that's been supplied by the industry guys and also any individuals who I know personally. There have obviously been a multitude of posts from people I do not know but as I've said, I will read such posts and temper that with a degree of scepticism until proven otherwise.
I think barnett for all his problems, will respect that I'm not a loose cannon here, I am a messenger here to some degree but in NO way am I trying to divorce myself from any attack on barnett or shoreline ... I will accept 100% responsibility for anything written by me and don't need or want any mechanism to take myself out the firing line.
When I’ve finished reading it all and digested it, I’ll come back on and let you know if my position has changed or maybe even hardened.