national service
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Also regarding the ECHR the United Kingdom has not ratified protocol 4 which restricts expulsion of foreign nationals. The rubbish you read in the paper regarding criminals right to stay in the country is incorrect and the right to family life does not overule the right to security. It is also explicit that in times of threat to the nation (i.e mass rioting) the rulebook goes out of the window.
The main (ab)users of the act are celebritys, politicians, criminals and the press (the first to use the act to justify it's actions and one of the most frequent users).
Doing away with the Human Rights act merely hands more power to the state and removes citizens rights including; life, security, free speech, freedom from torture, freedom from slavery, right to a fair trial etc. etc. What type of government wants to deny these basic right?
The main (ab)users of the act are celebritys, politicians, criminals and the press (the first to use the act to justify it's actions and one of the most frequent users).
Doing away with the Human Rights act merely hands more power to the state and removes citizens rights including; life, security, free speech, freedom from torture, freedom from slavery, right to a fair trial etc. etc. What type of government wants to deny these basic right?
My view that it is a matter of upbringing and morals.
If parents instill a sense of right and wrong into a child at a young age, disclipline them appropriately and educate them properly, you won't go far wrong.
I come from a one-parent family. My father did not marry my mother and left when I was small. My mother was an alcoholic, and I was left to my own devices most of the time.
So I would appear to fit the social blueprint for the rioters, yet I was in work at the time it was kicking off in Manchester.
If parents instill a sense of right and wrong into a child at a young age, disclipline them appropriately and educate them properly, you won't go far wrong.
I come from a one-parent family. My father did not marry my mother and left when I was small. My mother was an alcoholic, and I was left to my own devices most of the time.
So I would appear to fit the social blueprint for the rioters, yet I was in work at the time it was kicking off in Manchester.
HMS does no want the rubbish in the forces, National service would not work, first beasting and there would be law suits, The TA sign the Queens oath just like a regular can come back and do just like a regular in body bags.
Keep hearing about Discipline, schools there hands are tied, parents largely to blame for the rubbish on our streets, cos years ago they were rubbish on our streets.
A complex debate, but National Service in the current litagation world a deffo no no.
Keep hearing about Discipline, schools there hands are tied, parents largely to blame for the rubbish on our streets, cos years ago they were rubbish on our streets.
A complex debate, but National Service in the current litagation world a deffo no no.
I always hang my head when I read these threads, such narrow minded answers to societies problems.
Kids causing trouble? = National Service!!!
Ask yourself the question does that solve the issues that brought these problems in the first place? no. Its simply a reactionary tactic, and a classic right wing one at that, something the Sun or Daily Mail splash over their pages to sell papers.
No one single issue is the cause for those riots in london, our social structure is far far to complex for that, so blaming no parents or lack of discipline. problems such as those and poverty all play their part in such circumstances.
As anyone every thought Capitalism may be a fault? The ever present consumerist culture we live and breath? the persistent media campaign to make the population fear immigration and rampaging youths whilst not giving any useful answers to the problems?
Don’t get me wrong I’m no apologist for the people who committed those crimes, and I’m not giving excuses for those peoples behaviour. BUT consider that those people and others like them are a minority in the UK, so why generate policy that effects the other 95% law abiding young people? It feels like every young person is like this thanks to media manipulation, if there was a knife crime in London and the media picked up the story then you’ll find every knife crime is published, which makes you think its rife across Britain. So you shouldn’t leave your home ever incase these crazy young rioters get you!
I for one would actively campaign against the implementation of a National Service, the military changes you as a person, they mould you into what they need you to be, a soldier and as people have said that could end in dire consequences. Consider another factor, what if I don’t want to go into National Service? What if I have no interest in the military? The idea of that conformity, structure and discipline fills me with dread. I’m one of that 95% but I’m not a person destined for the military, id rather do far more creative things with my time, so punishing that one out of 1000 young people by putting them all in National Service would in fact be punishing 999 young people simply for being young…. That narrow minded attitude of “it’ll do’em good” and “give them a trade” etc is a part of the problem, what if I don’t want a trade? National Service would only breed a specific state of mind and cultural path, its all very 1984.
Kids causing trouble? = National Service!!!
Ask yourself the question does that solve the issues that brought these problems in the first place? no. Its simply a reactionary tactic, and a classic right wing one at that, something the Sun or Daily Mail splash over their pages to sell papers.
No one single issue is the cause for those riots in london, our social structure is far far to complex for that, so blaming no parents or lack of discipline. problems such as those and poverty all play their part in such circumstances.
As anyone every thought Capitalism may be a fault? The ever present consumerist culture we live and breath? the persistent media campaign to make the population fear immigration and rampaging youths whilst not giving any useful answers to the problems?
Don’t get me wrong I’m no apologist for the people who committed those crimes, and I’m not giving excuses for those peoples behaviour. BUT consider that those people and others like them are a minority in the UK, so why generate policy that effects the other 95% law abiding young people? It feels like every young person is like this thanks to media manipulation, if there was a knife crime in London and the media picked up the story then you’ll find every knife crime is published, which makes you think its rife across Britain. So you shouldn’t leave your home ever incase these crazy young rioters get you!
I for one would actively campaign against the implementation of a National Service, the military changes you as a person, they mould you into what they need you to be, a soldier and as people have said that could end in dire consequences. Consider another factor, what if I don’t want to go into National Service? What if I have no interest in the military? The idea of that conformity, structure and discipline fills me with dread. I’m one of that 95% but I’m not a person destined for the military, id rather do far more creative things with my time, so punishing that one out of 1000 young people by putting them all in National Service would in fact be punishing 999 young people simply for being young…. That narrow minded attitude of “it’ll do’em good” and “give them a trade” etc is a part of the problem, what if I don’t want a trade? National Service would only breed a specific state of mind and cultural path, its all very 1984.
By 2020 the military won't be big enough to cope with national service. The TA will make up a 1/3 of uk troops. National service will only be needed in drastic action,
Perhaps global domination by china may cause this, apart from that we will hold a well equipped under manned UK expeditionary force for peace keeping and defensive
Missions. Anyone considering joining up needs to ask themselves
What else could I be doing. Redundancies are there for the next four years, but all sergeant majors have been told to weed out the weak! I have a feeling national service will never be seen again, perhaps certain ex soldiers should become year heads at schools to help put a spine in teachers, then you are dealing with the problem at an earlier age.
Perhaps global domination by china may cause this, apart from that we will hold a well equipped under manned UK expeditionary force for peace keeping and defensive
Missions. Anyone considering joining up needs to ask themselves
What else could I be doing. Redundancies are there for the next four years, but all sergeant majors have been told to weed out the weak! I have a feeling national service will never be seen again, perhaps certain ex soldiers should become year heads at schools to help put a spine in teachers, then you are dealing with the problem at an earlier age.
Teachers aren't spineless. Nor are they inept, as some would believe (not at all implying this was your statement, just a general comment).
Teachers do all they can to control and improve, though restrictive legislation and constant monitoring from higher-ups and external governing bodies make their jobs incredibly difficult in the face of trouble makers. I think ex soldiers would become very frustrated in a classroom role, let alone a head of year role, which constitutes more paperwork than anything.
unless like me, you teach, you have no real idea of how little discipline we can actually inforce.
the media portrays teachers as incompetent or weak because there is poor behaviour in schools. society seems to believe that teachers should almost be regarded as chidcare (if only we got the same rate of pay as private childminedrs....) - even our own head of eduction in the council let slip that he feels the future of teachers should not to be to teach.....
the kids that cause the problems are very hard to remove from a class. heads are too cautious of the idea that "everyone has a right to an education" to remove the little blighters and instead they end up disrupting the education of the many instead of the one.
our education system is also going down the pan - the new scottish curriculum is being touted as a revolution that will help empower the children to take control of their own learning. in fact it should be parents that are bringing about a revolution and stopping it going ahead, but unfortunaelty the spin that goes with ti is so impeneratable that they have absolutely no idea what's going on. nor do we the teachers.......
i am actively seeking employment abroad, in an independant school, in order to actually guarantee my own kids a decent education. believe me it isn't what scotland is going to have anytime soon.
this lack of decent education isn't new. exam boards swear blind that the aren't making things easier. yet i routinely give my pupils older papers in order to challenge them - these are meant to be papers from the same subject, at the same level - and find that they can't do it. university entrance requirements have gone through the roof - not to weed out the lower achievers, or to reduce entry numbers (the clearance system will always ensure that there are enough bums on seats) but because they recognise that an A nowadays isn't comparable to an A 10 years ago. the english system even had to add an A* rating to help differentiate between the in ordinate amount of A grade passes being produced.
respect and decent, corteous behaviour are the two things missing from the kids that come into secondary school now. i've been teaching 13 years and seen it as a steady decline. the new starts used to come in timid - not always a good thing, but better than the cocky know-it-all, cheeky fecker attitude they display now.
what's happened in society that produces kids that don't know where the line and treat adults (or other authority figures) with even a degree of respect?
i don't think National Service would solve this. but if it could teach the young adults that come out of education with nothing but a healthy disregard for societal values some form of respect, that they could then instill in the next generation, it might be a start. but ti will never happen. it could remove money that is paid out as benefits, but that moeny (and more) would need to go back into the NS scheme and the country just doesn't have it at this point in time.
though i also think the idea of what those societal values are is skewed. as pete said, or implied, in his post, consumerism and over inflated expectations drive our society. the younger generations are growing up with this idea of "want" and "must have" at any cost - be it materialistic or monetary - and they seem to be aiming for it in whatever way they can, regardless of who they step on on the way, or how they behave to get it. i can see it flaring up in my own kids, having spent weeks trying to get the fixation with money out of my 7 year olds head......
(note: this is not meant to be a post that tars everyone with the same brush. when i refer to a category of people in society, there are always exceptions!)
the media portrays teachers as incompetent or weak because there is poor behaviour in schools. society seems to believe that teachers should almost be regarded as chidcare (if only we got the same rate of pay as private childminedrs....) - even our own head of eduction in the council let slip that he feels the future of teachers should not to be to teach.....
the kids that cause the problems are very hard to remove from a class. heads are too cautious of the idea that "everyone has a right to an education" to remove the little blighters and instead they end up disrupting the education of the many instead of the one.
our education system is also going down the pan - the new scottish curriculum is being touted as a revolution that will help empower the children to take control of their own learning. in fact it should be parents that are bringing about a revolution and stopping it going ahead, but unfortunaelty the spin that goes with ti is so impeneratable that they have absolutely no idea what's going on. nor do we the teachers.......
i am actively seeking employment abroad, in an independant school, in order to actually guarantee my own kids a decent education. believe me it isn't what scotland is going to have anytime soon.
this lack of decent education isn't new. exam boards swear blind that the aren't making things easier. yet i routinely give my pupils older papers in order to challenge them - these are meant to be papers from the same subject, at the same level - and find that they can't do it. university entrance requirements have gone through the roof - not to weed out the lower achievers, or to reduce entry numbers (the clearance system will always ensure that there are enough bums on seats) but because they recognise that an A nowadays isn't comparable to an A 10 years ago. the english system even had to add an A* rating to help differentiate between the in ordinate amount of A grade passes being produced.
respect and decent, corteous behaviour are the two things missing from the kids that come into secondary school now. i've been teaching 13 years and seen it as a steady decline. the new starts used to come in timid - not always a good thing, but better than the cocky know-it-all, cheeky fecker attitude they display now.
what's happened in society that produces kids that don't know where the line and treat adults (or other authority figures) with even a degree of respect?
i don't think National Service would solve this. but if it could teach the young adults that come out of education with nothing but a healthy disregard for societal values some form of respect, that they could then instill in the next generation, it might be a start. but ti will never happen. it could remove money that is paid out as benefits, but that moeny (and more) would need to go back into the NS scheme and the country just doesn't have it at this point in time.
though i also think the idea of what those societal values are is skewed. as pete said, or implied, in his post, consumerism and over inflated expectations drive our society. the younger generations are growing up with this idea of "want" and "must have" at any cost - be it materialistic or monetary - and they seem to be aiming for it in whatever way they can, regardless of who they step on on the way, or how they behave to get it. i can see it flaring up in my own kids, having spent weeks trying to get the fixation with money out of my 7 year olds head......
(note: this is not meant to be a post that tars everyone with the same brush. when i refer to a category of people in society, there are always exceptions!)
Rider, when I taught, I was lucky enough to do so when the kids had finished school and needed extra tuition either through remedial lessons or for high fliers who weren't being catered for in their school.
I had GCSE and A level students but the difference was, they wanted to learn; they realised their needs weren't being catered for in mainstream education and so sought outside help to get them up to whatever speed they required.
The problem I witnessed wasn't coming from these sorta kids, it comes from kids who don't give a sh!t about anybody or anything and so infect everyone in their class and effectively bring down the level of education toward their level of behaviour.
Last week I went out for a meal with a mate of mine and his wife, she teaches at our local girls grammar school, I knew it well because my daughter went there.
The biggest problem her fellow teachers are having is from two directions, firstly, 'minority' students disrupting classes and secondly from the people who run the school board.
A lot of the disruptive kids have done more than enough to warrant expulsion [or so you'd think] but as soon as the school ventures down that road, the race card is generally played along with the school's ridiculous policy in not wanting to expel kids because it would look bad on their record.... basically, it wouldn't look good if there were too many expulsions because it would tend to dissuade the bright pupils to go there ...
She also added , two of the girls who should be expelled are psychotic and need a different type of education and help that could not be catered for in the school ... they had serious behavioural issues and were affecting everyone in their respective classes ... this is insane [no pun intended] ..
The teachers are hamstrung .. completely .... their morale is at an all time low because of these PC nuts that seem to have so much influence in our lives now .. gone are the days when a clip round the ear-hole was sufficient to get a kid in line .. I got hit at school a few times by teachers; I learned not to behave in the way that was causing their displeasure; I'm not really advocating physical punishment here because it could well go too far but it didn't do me any bad ....and nor any of the many people I know from my school.
We are allowing the ability to make rational decisions slip away from us into the grasp of idealists who think the world is all fluffy clouds and can be learned out of social science books .....
I predict there will be an avalanche of teachers leaving their profession with just the same justification as I predicted the recent riots we all saw a few months back .. too much is simmering beneath ... waaay too many people have lost faith in politicians and authority in general.
Far too much consideration is given to minorities at our expense ..... sooner or later, the sh!ts really gonna hit the fan and when it does, you bet your ass the politicians who've allowed this to happen will be sitting at home in the suburbs watching it all unfold on TV .....
I had GCSE and A level students but the difference was, they wanted to learn; they realised their needs weren't being catered for in mainstream education and so sought outside help to get them up to whatever speed they required.
The problem I witnessed wasn't coming from these sorta kids, it comes from kids who don't give a sh!t about anybody or anything and so infect everyone in their class and effectively bring down the level of education toward their level of behaviour.
Last week I went out for a meal with a mate of mine and his wife, she teaches at our local girls grammar school, I knew it well because my daughter went there.
The biggest problem her fellow teachers are having is from two directions, firstly, 'minority' students disrupting classes and secondly from the people who run the school board.
A lot of the disruptive kids have done more than enough to warrant expulsion [or so you'd think] but as soon as the school ventures down that road, the race card is generally played along with the school's ridiculous policy in not wanting to expel kids because it would look bad on their record.... basically, it wouldn't look good if there were too many expulsions because it would tend to dissuade the bright pupils to go there ...
She also added , two of the girls who should be expelled are psychotic and need a different type of education and help that could not be catered for in the school ... they had serious behavioural issues and were affecting everyone in their respective classes ... this is insane [no pun intended] ..
The teachers are hamstrung .. completely .... their morale is at an all time low because of these PC nuts that seem to have so much influence in our lives now .. gone are the days when a clip round the ear-hole was sufficient to get a kid in line .. I got hit at school a few times by teachers; I learned not to behave in the way that was causing their displeasure; I'm not really advocating physical punishment here because it could well go too far but it didn't do me any bad ....and nor any of the many people I know from my school.
We are allowing the ability to make rational decisions slip away from us into the grasp of idealists who think the world is all fluffy clouds and can be learned out of social science books .....
I predict there will be an avalanche of teachers leaving their profession with just the same justification as I predicted the recent riots we all saw a few months back .. too much is simmering beneath ... waaay too many people have lost faith in politicians and authority in general.
Far too much consideration is given to minorities at our expense ..... sooner or later, the sh!ts really gonna hit the fan and when it does, you bet your ass the politicians who've allowed this to happen will be sitting at home in the suburbs watching it all unfold on TV .....