Millennium Series Division 1 Captains

[Edwards]

ever heard

"pissing in the wind"

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff


Just because something may seem doomed, does not mean it is pointles...... Sometimes you have to battle windmills.... and sometimes you actually win

Nick

And if you win........ everybody may lose........the rationale is what exactly Nick?

Selfish endeavour takes precedence over general well being ???


You ain't that silly Nick!

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Well Pete - just because you disagree with me, does not necessarily mean I am wrong - it just means we disagree on the issue...... you have been known to be wrong on occasion (I know, it hurts to think about - but it happens )

- and, from the indications I have received so far, a big percentage of Div. 1 teams agree with me...... so when does it stop being "selfish", and start being a majority concensous?

BTW - I am a bit curious as to how "everyone" should lose, by Div. 1 playing a lighter version of M7? - what exactly do we stand to lose - that we retain by playing 7-man?

(seriously - I am curious as to the rationale here??)

In one day, the following teams playing MS Div. 1, have said they want to play M7 (or a version thereof with lower paint consumption):

Campaign Jaguars
Con-X-ion
Allstars
Just Manchester
PIMP
Maharadjas
Backlash
Envy
Berserks

And the ones that said (e-mail or in forums) they prefered 7-man were:

Ugly Ducklings
Endurance
DOW

You may ofcourse think that all the teams that have yet to reply are in favour on 7-man - and you may be right... it may be a "no need to reply, we got what we wanted" kind of thing...... but at least I think the Div. 1 teams deserve to be heard on the issue.

Another question is, if you truly think you know better what is best for the Div. 1 teams than they themselves do? - Maybe you are just trying to show us all some tough paternal love - and get us back on the straight and narrow - in which case I really appreciate the effort, but respectfully decline

Nick

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Well Pete - just because you disagree with me, does not necessarily mean I am wrong - it just means we disagree on the issue...... you have been known to be wrong on occasion (I know, it hurts to think about - but it happens )

- and, from the indications I have received so far, a big percentage of Div. 1 teams agree with me...... so when does it stop being "selfish", and start being a majority concensous?

BTW - I am a bit curious as to how "everyone" should lose, by Div. 1 playing a lighter version of M7? - what exactly do we stand to lose - that we retain by playing 7-man?

(seriously - I am curious as to the rationale here??)

In one day, the following teams playing MS Div. 1, have said they want to play M7 (or a version thereof with lower paint consumption):

Campaign Jaguars
Con-X-ion
Allstars
Just Manchester
PIMP
Maharadjas
Backlash
Envy
Berserks

And the ones that said (e-mail or in forums) they prefered 7-man were:

Ugly Ducklings
Endurance
DOW

You may ofcourse think that all the teams that have yet to reply are in favour on 7-man - and you may be right... it may be a "no need to reply, we got what we wanted" kind of thing...... but at least I think the Div. 1 teams deserve to be heard on the issue.

Another question is, if you truly think you know better what is best for the Div. 1 teams than they themselves do? - Maybe you are just trying to show us all some tough paternal love - and get us back on the straight and narrow - in which case I really appreciate the effort, but respectfully decline

Nick

Since you seem to premise your post with announcing I have made mistakes, presumably relating to paintball matters and this somehow undermining my present position, I will challenge you to go find one of these mistakes that has any significant bearing on this and for every mistake you find (none that I can think of), I can go get a few of yours where we know you assume ridiculous positions for your own ends...remember ?
I do, they are at my fingertips.

Now, instead of highlighting mistakes you 'think' I have made, I would rather be respected for the ones I have got right and the experience I have in paintball to legitimise any opinion I might have on this subject......
Now let's move past this ridiculous position

And please don't play the solidarity card for yourself and the exclusion card for me with Div 1 teams Nick in proclaiming,

'Another question is, if you truly think you know better what is best for the Div. 1 teams than they themselves do? - Maybe you are just trying to show us all some tough paternal love - and get us back on the straight and narrow - in which case I really appreciate the effort, but respectfully decline

I find that stance ridiculous, you'd drop playing in Div 1 in a heartbeat and there is nothing that precludes me from commenting on Div1 whatsoever, what a pathetic point you make on this, I find that kinda insulting really in that you think I can only legitimately comment on pros.

As for this :-

- and, from the indications I have received so far, a big percentage of Div. 1 teams agree with me...... so when does it stop being "selfish", and start being a majority consensus?

So basically, you haven't got a majority yet?????
Oh, but when you do, great, fantastic, but that was never my point.
If you went to the UK nation and declared the next vote is gonna be for zero tax...do you think there would be a majority vote to accept the proposal?
Of course there would....get the picture as to what happens next ?
The whole point here is not the corner you keep maneuvering this into but for the reasons already mentioned.

My rationale as to why everybody COULD (not should, don't misquote me, I said 'MAY') lose is quite simple as I and TJ have already said.
Div 1 votes and gets a consensus, now Div 2 does the same on the back of that precedent and then the whole league goes M7.

The format is then extended to all divs and as the year unfolds it is found to be unworkable for many different reasons that are at present untested. XBall has already shown us there is a significant fall out even after the first event.

And so, what might we get from indulging you?
We get a cascade of divs following your precedent and potentially compromising the integrity of the league...just because you want your own way and you ain't in the pro league no more.

And this next point takes little expansion but I am sure you will pick up on it, the Millennium guys have to be very mindful during any transition period or format change of other leagues and their intentions........

Come on Nick, I respect why you want to play M7 but it isn't appropriate at this stage with all things considered.

 

[Steve Hancock]

I agree that it would be wrong for all the lower divs to convert over to M7, but I'm pursuaded that Div 1 converting would cause a cascade. In addittion would it not make sense for the divs not playing m7 to play standard 5 man? Would it not feed into the M7 better when they get promoted or the divisions gradually change over?

And what's with the 7-man roaster cap? What was the rational behind that?

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Steve Hancock

And what's with the 7-man roaster cap? What was the rational behind that?

It was someting that all the captains agreed to. Reasons are:

To stop teams running 15 man squads and tearing the talent pool out of other teams

To stop teams running two 5 man squads at events

To make the M7 format accessible to every team in every league in the world. You only need 7 players to play, so no team expansion would be neccessary.

 

[HERMITT]

I think the reasons Sam has just listed are exactly what needed to happen to make sure this format can work across the divisions and will last for the long term.

With a player base that is smaller than its US counterpart European countries would always need this kind of decision to alllow them to access this format at all levels.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I will challenge you to go find one of these mistakes that has any significant bearing on this

First off - I have no idea if there are any that has baring on THIS issue.... I was speaking generally... in terms of you being able to be wrong, just as every other human being!

Second - I honestly can't be bothered to read through countles threads just to try and put you on the spot - it serves very little purpose (except for pride).

I would rather be respected for the ones I have got right and the experience I have in paintball to legitimise any opinion I might have on this subject.....

Likewise

- and - there is no doubt you would win a pissing contest - but that still doesn't mean you are always right.

I find that stance ridiculous, you'd drop playing in Div 1 in a heartbeat and there is nothing that precludes me from commenting on Div1 whatsoever, what a pathetic point you make on this, I find that kinda insulting really in that you think I can only legitimately comment on pros.

I completely agree - I the reason I worded it that way, was to make you aware it goes both ways..... instead of brushing me off with flippant comments about me being "selfish".

I would have thought you knew me well enough to NEVER be selfish, and ALWAYS advocate what I believe is in the best interest of paintball generally - even at the expense of my own team.

If you went to the UK nation and declared the next vote is gonna be for zero tax...do you think there would be a majority vote to accept the proposal?

Actually no - just as I don't think the majority of paintball teams would be stupid enough to vote against their own best interest.... people are brighter than you think

Nick

 

[Matski]

WOOOHOOOOOOOOO NO TAX!!!!!!

 

[Steve Hancock]

Originally posted by sjt19
To stop teams running 15 man squads and tearing the talent pool out of other teams

I guess.