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Millennium Series 2003

garycarrot

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Apr 9, 2002
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If you want to play the "PROS" then get your team to that level. I dont think thats to much to ask.
If you play as a team, and work hard. You should move up the divisions. If you are any good as a team you will be rewarded and play the best.
I have played "PROS" and "AMS" and "NOVICE" they all can shoot you and you can shoot them, But it should be about the team winning and moving up.
Its a team sport.
Yes i enjoy shooting someone famous, and it still hurts when they shoot me, but i would rather get the team to the level where we can play them all the time.
 

Wadidiz

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Jul 9, 2002
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Come on people! I have yet to see a real argument againt mixing the classes for a couple of games in the prelims. We have seen a couple in favor:

1. The "peons" get a chance to try their stuff against a higher class a couple of times during each tournament, therefore a chance to learn something.

2. The lower classes ("Let them eat cake.") will be much likely to attend the expensive big tournaments. And they are the ones who actually have to pay for everything themselves, including the prizes for the pros. Cut their chances to meet the higher levels and you will cut attendance. (Hard to prove since tournament paintball is growing so fast anyway.)

Moving up the ranks is a process and a rightful part of that process is getting to muster everything you have to play against a higher class team a couple of times in the prelims. The first couple of times you don't know what hit you. You keep trying, you learn something.

Are you pros afraid of getting your buns whuuped by some low-life ammies or novies? Read my post a few back. It is not uncommon. I saw Nick's team got beat (mostly fairly and squarely) by an amateur team that didn't make the semi's.

And the spectating doesn't really start happening at a NPPL or Millennium tournament until the semi's and finals.

Let's hear something with substance. Not just what you like.

:p
 

Flash-Bugout

doin' other stuffs
Jul 6, 2001
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Originally posted by garycarrot
If you want to play the "PROS" then get your team to that level. I dont think thats to much to ask.
If you play as a team, and work hard. You should move up the divisions. If you are any good as a team you will be rewarded and play the best.
Speaking from a purely university paintball team point of view now, it's not really realistic to get to pro level, as (intheory) the longest the team will be together is three years. In practice, we take 10 to every 7-man event, and the current pompey uni team which has now been going a year, hasn't had the same team for any two tourneys. Also, now that the new academic year has begun, we are getting many new players into the team - none of which helps make pro before we graduate.

Our regular monthly tourneys, fine, I don't wanna play the top pro's and have my ass handed to me, but the big ones, such as campaign, toulouse, joy etc, I want the chance to light up one of aftershock on the break* again.

(*even if I did get to watch all my paint bounce off him - really shoulda dialled up from 240! :rolleyes: ).

I don't like it, but I sense it's coming anyways, exclusive pro leagues. Roll on paintball being accepted as a sport rather than a hobby. :D

The one thing I'm wondering is, will pro tourneys be run separate from the ams/novs - maybe not next year (for financial reaons) but in a couple of years time I can see it happening.
 
Pros will play ONLY Pros

I agree that Pro's should perhaps not be playing the novice teams on the grounds of complete whitewash and the fact that at present it is on occasion that a pro team will get to play two Novice teams and most Pros only play one, thus giving one of the Pro teams a large points advantage in the prelims. However I believe that Ams and pro's should mix at the current rate i.e. Pros meet one/two am teams in the prelims, this gives the am teams a chance to prove themselves against the pros and perhaps give them an insight into what standard of play is expected of them at the next level giving them a bench mark to work towards. Not only that, it gives other people a chance to see if a particular Am team is kicking the pros butts thus people being able to recognize sandbaggers more openly.

I do think that Pro's just Playing Pros would harm the attendance of a tournament as a lot of teams go to the big events to test themselves at all levels of play. I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves if we think that the big events could cope with less teams and still survive, you say (someone did) that paintball is growing fast enough for this, I don’t think so, yes paintball is growing rapidly but lets not get ahead of ourselves the Millennium and the NPPL are the bench marks of paintball at the minute and to actively make these tournaments less attractive to the majority of teams would be suicide (not sure on the NPPL but the Millennium tournies normally have a massive majority of Novice teams compared to any other class. not only that, the trade shows and sponsors rely on the Am & Novice teams to buy their merchandise, most of the pros are sponsored and therefore don’t buy anything, the revenue from a tourny comes from the Ams & Novices.

- Pro teams will be forced to judge if the want to play the Series

It sounds good in theory but if you force someone to do a job then the results could be pretty bad marshalling. I think the best thing here is to push the PRO ref thing forward although I do appreciate this is some way off, with the reffing I think the tournament organizers should not only pay the Ultimate judge but have paid head refs on each field and it is there responsibility to control the level of marshalling on that field. Perhaps even spending a couple of hours with there allocated refs giving them pointers as to what is actually required, (again I see some floors).



- 5 rather than 4 results will count towards the Series title

I think this has to stay as your best four scores from five on the grounds that even some of the best teams cant afford to play all the events and this gives a fair way of all teams of what ever financial position to compete for the prizes.

-All prize money will go to the Pros and the Series title will again be worth some dough

Don’t agree with this, again the Am teams are normally pushing a tight budget to enter 4/5 of the events and for some teams the prize money is all that allows then to compete in as many events as they do…again you could be restricting the amount of teams who enter.

- Forced promotion of the best Amateurs

In an ideal world, I’d agree that perhaps the top 2 am teams are promoted to Pro but there are so many factors as to why teams don’t step up. i.e. Cash, The loss of players, sponsorship contracts, etc etc… Tricky one!!!
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Guys, guys, guys

Pros? What pros? Oh, you mean those teams generally regarded as superior to the great majority of other teams. Okay. But so what? What claim do they have to any special treatment or reward?
From the Mil organizers perspective why would they make changes that undermine or potentially undermine the broadest possible interest in their events? If they are 50% Nov, 30% Am and 20% Pro who should the organizers be catering to?
As long as every team is paying for the opportunity to play every team has the right to make demands and seek equal rewards because as things stand now the only people who care who is better than whom are the players.

So tell me, Nick, if you're opposed to "Pros" playing Novs on the issue of fairness are you also in favor of promotors denying teams opportunities to play certain events based on the same criteria? After all, why should a tourney with predominantly Nov entrants have to compete against a Pro team for the prizes the promotors offer?
 

TJ 2

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Sep 9, 2001
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Tha Mill. organizers may have it tough next year, if X-Ball prevents most US teams from going to Europe, so ya gotta applaud them for preparing to take some unpopular steps.

I borrowed Countess Nicola's crystal ball and also saw tha Pros paying a far higher entry fee than tha rest of the teams, by the way.

And as one of tha root vegetables mentioned, separating Pros and prize money is also an effective way to start shifting some of tha better sandbaggers.

Let's hope tha Millennium board has the courage of its convictions and makes some unpopular short term decisions that will benefit all in the long term.
 
Prize Money....

Nick, I have an idea about the prize money. Lets get all us Novice and Am teams, that basically pay for the Millenium Series to run, to put our hands in our pockets and just give cash to the Pro teams just for the honour of having them at the event - despite the fact that we are no longer good enough to play them.

I have a much better suggestion - take your 'Pro team wants all the cash' attitude and set yourself up a series of events on your own, then you wont have to play us 'peasants' and you can have all the prize money as well. That way we (Nov and Am) get to still play our great events and have a share of the prize fund and you (Pro) get to reaslize that you cant stand on your own without us and that there isn't enough money generated by 20 Pro teams to put on a Millenium event and give prizes.

So, after a season of sh*t tournaments that have no prize money and a poorly run because the organisers can't afford to have pom-pom girls, restaurants, players parties etc you (Pro) can all come back to us and we might let you play with us again.

You can not force paintball into something it has yet to develop into. Evolution, by its very nature, takes time and until we can attract outside sponsorship and people pay to come and see us play we are stuck with the fact that events will have to be internally funded. This means that without the support of the Nov and Am teams (>80% at each event) the Pro teams are fairly screwed. I find it insulting that not only would the Pros not want to play us Ams but that you then want all the money too - you ain't Manchester United you know.

And Nick, you're point that its just not 'sporting' for Pros to play Ams - thats a laugh! You think we just get turned over by the Pros all the time? Do you think you just rip through us like we're not there? No wait, I know, you Pros think that we should all be sat behind our baricades with our Autograph books out waiting for your signatures - HAH! I love nothing better than watching cocky, arragant Pro players get their butts handed to them on a big silver plate by Nov and Am teams. Now this might only very rarely happen with Nov teams but it happens loads with Ams. I think that the gap between Pro and the Am is nothing more than consistancy - sponsored to the hilt and playing 5 days a week brings better consistancy quicker - thats all.

If I am being told that next years Millenium events will have a seperated Pro league with the Pro teams taking all the cake then I would rather not have them there - where is the benifit to us, the 80% of the players there? We dont get to play the Pro's, the Pro's get all the money and we get nothing. You say that we can learn more by watching Pros play - well then, start your own circuit and charge us lowly peasants to come and watch you play - I am sure you would get loads of people to pay to see you play - (cough) NOT!!!!!!!!

Please don't take this posting the worng way though - I know many of the Pro players on the Millenium circuit and like virtually all of them - I have nothing against any of them but arragant money grabbing ideas like this get under my skin.

When paintball evolves into a sport that is not industry lead and internally funded by its own players then we can make this step - until then you may have to come back to the real world and realise that you (Pro) need us (Nov and Am) for the financial support to get great events just as we (Nov and Am) need you (Pro) to help us learn and evaluate ourselves.

Thats all I have - feel free to rip me apart for my opinions.