Millennium + NPPL 2005?

[Buddha 3]

You might well see an increase, because of the added weight of having/wanting to stay in that exclusive pro bracket. Obviously if all this is to happen, you can be pretty sure that very few Mill events would count towards the NPPL standings, if any at all.
So particularly those teams that feel they need the shot at those points would find it very interesting to come on over. This would include many of the middle and lower ranked pros, as well as a good number of the top ams. And some top teams might just pop over for an easy buck.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by crazzzy
Thanks for putting that straight!

By the way, if the NPPL would come across, how many US teams do you guys think would attend if, lets say, we had 2 legs in Europe? I mean, the maximum we´ve seen is I believe 10 teams (once at Toulouse and now in Malaga) so can we expect more teams flying over just because the NPPL is hosting the events?

In the past, the main reason the Yank teams made the trip was because the tourneys were so much better over here compared to what the PSP were putting on before the split (and in fact still are).

Toulouse was the main attractant for obvious reasons; but now, the Euros in the form of Pure Promotions have taken that standard of tournament promotion and marched on even further and given you Yanks a tournament series to be proud of.
Just how many, if any at all, Euro legs of the NPPL (if the NPPL does come over) there will be is debatable and if those tourneys carry any seeding points is also debatable and therefore I don't see any significant showing of US teams over here as things stand, there's just no point.

At some point in the next few years a world league will be created, how this will pan out when it comes to accumulating points and how it affetcs whether you play this side of the Atlantic or the other or both remains to be seen.

 

[stongle]

Ha, what makes me laugh is the contrary message PP seems to be sending out, and a lot of people are falling for it. One minute we're heading towards a World Paintball League, and the next there's not enough collie green linguine's in it? Sounds almost short sighted, or does it. NPPL expansion into Europe wil only occur when it is financially expedient for PP to do so. No-one really gives a flying hoot about the players or teams. Do you really think this is all about Super 18 Pro bracket???, it's about cash money, Super Pro is just a hook to bring in the paying punters (why do you think they want 200 teams?, "Earth to Ivory Towers come in please"), and hopefully TV dollars. It may well take Paintball forward, but at the bottom of it all is money, it always is. If it's going to make money, you know damn well a poker will be shoved up the bums of teams to get their asses over to Toulouse for an event, if it generates the "Holy Grail" of 200 teams, their coming.

The NPPL probably doesn't really need to commit right now either, just the very notion will create instability within the Euro market. This weakens the hold the Millennium series has over European teams, so I'd be surprised to see more than 1 or at a max 2 NPPL's within Europe, and that's for the tease. A full commitment to Europe won't likely happen till 2006, the trouble is will there be any competitive (Euro) teams left by then. The creation of instability in PP's backyard, may well be good for business, it ain't going to be good for the teams. Teams in general are both notoriously stupid and notoriously fickle. Their going to throw money away on old rope and get nowhere in the process. They'll play a mix of events, forego training (due to choice and expense of events), but at the end of the day get smashed to smithereens by the yanks cos Euroball in general sucks. The only point form Nick's post that I think comes close to being correct is the one about paintball wheels turning slowly. They do, this ain't about 2005, it's about 2006. Oh, and WDP/PP sticking one in the eye of SP in the process.

Of course as always in paintball everyone's left guessing, who knows maybe PP will be giving various Millennium promoters a rub down and shiatsu in a Solihull massage parlour, it certainly makes business sense to cut a few bilateral agreements with certain people (especially if you boll*cks are getting tickled at the same time)

As Paintball heads ever more mainstream, what happens on field matters less and less. Players and teams are commodities that will get shoved around the board and what they as individuals think matters not, as long as the paying customer is satisfied.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by stongle
As Paintball heads ever more mainstream, what happens on field matters less and less. Players and teams are commodities that will get shoved around the board and what they as individuals think matters not, as long as the paying customer is satisfied.

I don't think one interest necessarily has to run contra to the interests of the other here Glen, it could well be that everybody benefits as we head mainstream.
That certainly can be said of PP's efforts in the Super 7's where everybody does seem to benefit and I don't really see why they would feel the need to depart from such a strategy.

 

[stongle]

I agree Pete, but there is an awful lot of emphasis on the group of 18, but not a lot on the remaining 200 hundred teams (that number seems to be becoming the bench mark dependency). I'm not referring across the board here, but I think certain people get caught up in the pro pro pro frenzy (unfortunately Pete these pompous idiots get on mine and others t*ts), and can't necessarily see the wood for the trees as it were. The NPPL Pro bracket is a good thing for Paintball, and is a good draw for teams to come and play the event, I don't believe it exists purely for the benefit of those in it (hopefully that makes it clearer).

The whole conversation thus far has been about pro-bracket, but the thread is just as much about the rest of the events or series. The Pro Bracket of the NPPL also lends credibility to Div 1 too, as this becomes semi-pro. A team could be more marketable being Div1 winner than being mid table mediocre in Pro. There are a lot of other issues and concepts (such as media and promotion, but I ain't teaching you to suck eggs here), that teams are going to have to become savvy with to ensure success as Paintball progresses. To date the benefits of those "In" the pro-bracket and WDP/PP has been mutually INclusive, but to what end?

I suppose in a nutshell I'm saying you can't move Paintball forward by concentrating on the pro-bracket alone, and I doubt it's in the financial interest of PP to do so.

 

[Robbo]

Aha, I now see where you are coming from.
I think the pro bracketing as far as PP are concerned is merely the vehicle on which they serve up paintball to the masses via TV.

And as such, any improvements made to that format would have to be reflected downward.
I also think PP are acutely aware the direction they must go in comprises of two distinct parts that were not necessarily distinguished before.
The pro league marketing tool and the tournament masses, integrated yes, but distinct in terms of emphasis.
The tournament masses are the result, or will be seen as the result of a successful marketing of the pros much like it is in other sports.
It's a top down approach to marketing a sport as against waiting for it to evolve from the myriad of Recball sites that cover the US.
Leastwise that's how I see it

 

[Baca Loco]

Well, I can see the benefit to PP/NPPL and the trickle down to the Pro division but I'm not sure just what the rest get excepting a better run event and the opportunity to walk around in the proximity of the pro division. And given the history of Paintball to date that sounds like not such a bad thing. Still--
At the end of the day, if it's all about the money, and the money is there 'cus of the Pros and TV what exactly is the point of having all the others hanging about? It adds hugely to the expense of putting on an event, limits locations, is a logistical nightmare, etc. and if it turns out to be possible to draw "spectators" without the vast majority of them having been competitors what exactly is the value to PP/NPPL and the Pro League of any of the rest of the players and divisions? I'm not saying there won't be events for lower level teams but, checking history again, one of the reasons they was there in the first place was to 'support' the pro teams and if the pros no longer need 'em, why have 'em?
At this point in time--or a point everyone seems to be pushing toward, anyway--all the other stuff is more of an impediment--or may become--than a necessity.
In fact, going a wee bit further, if you had a stripped down, Pro league only event what would the Pros need with any of the rest of the current PB structures? At the present the Pros may get the kudos but they're part of the system like everyone else. If the future is gonna be built on their appeal why shouldn't they get the lion's share of the reward? A Pro only league would need one or two fields tops, less space, fewer refs, etc. If TV is in the offing it's the Pros that will be the mainstay and if some few folks are prepared to pay to spectate, again it's the Pros they want to see.
Once upon a time the Pros created their own league and called it the NPPL. Why couildn't they do it again?

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Well, I can see the benefit to PP/NPPL and the trickle down to the Pro division but I'm not sure just what the rest get excepting a better run event and the opportunity to walk around in the proximity of the pro division. And given the history of Paintball to date that sounds like not such a bad thing. Still--
At the end of the day, if it's all about the money, and the money is there 'cus of the Pros and TV what exactly is the point of having all the others hanging about? It adds hugely to the expense of putting on an event, limits locations, is a logistical nightmare, etc. and if it turns out to be possible to draw "spectators" without the vast majority of them having been competitors what exactly is the value to PP/NPPL and the Pro League of any of the rest of the players and divisions? I'm not saying there won't be events for lower level teams but, checking history again, one of the reasons they was there in the first place was to 'support' the pro teams and if the pros no longer need 'em, why have 'em?
At this point in time--or a point everyone seems to be pushing toward, anyway--all the other stuff is more of an impediment--or may become--than a necessity.
In fact, going a wee bit further, if you had a stripped down, Pro league only event what would the Pros need with any of the rest of the current PB structures? At the present the Pros may get the kudos but they're part of the system like everyone else. If the future is gonna be built on their appeal why shouldn't they get the lion's share of the reward? A Pro only league would need one or two fields tops, less space, fewer refs, etc. If TV is in the offing it's the Pros that will be the mainstay and if some few folks are prepared to pay to spectate, again it's the Pros they want to see.
Once upon a time the Pros created their own league and called it the NPPL. Why couildn't they do it again?

Paul, in the short term, this strategy is called 'expediency', in the mid to long term, it's relabeled as 'evolution'.....we can't have it all ways just the same as we can't turn the clock back unless it's made in Ludditesville

 

[Baca Loco]

Pete.
As long as peeps are willing to pay to play the lower levels will have paintball tournaments. I'm not in the least concerned about them in that respect.
What I'm wondering about, no doubt ungratefully, is just why exactly the Pros aren't rethinking the paradigm while things remain in a state of flux. What you label potential evolution doesn't look particularly radical to me. In fact it looks pretty routine. I'm more of a revolution kind'a guy.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Pete.
As long as peeps are willing to pay to play the lower levels will have paintball tournaments. I'm not in the least concerned about them in that respect.
What I'm wondering about, no doubt ungratefully, is just why exactly the Pros aren't rethinking the paradigm while things remain in a state of flux. What you label potential evolution doesn't look particularly radical to me. In fact it looks pretty routine. I'm more of a revolution kind'a guy.

Paul, I think from the perspective of anything that is undergoing an evolutionary phase, the perception is generally going to be one of routine, evolution is slow and change is sometimes discrete and therefore from the pros point of view, no real need for any paradigm shift.

What needs to be radicalised is the format we use and the platform for this change is going to be the process toward TV.
I know you have doubts regarding this process and its consequences and they are probably well founded but I have always been of the opinion that we have nothing much to lose if we go down this road.

After all, revolution is really only evolution in another guise, it's just over a shorter space of time, that's all