Millennium 2004 part deux.

[Buddha 3]

Okay, so the dates are known, as well as some 'rule' changes.
Now a positive person might feel happy about the fact that game time has been cut back from 10 to 7 minutes, because it is said to promote aggressive play. A cynical b*st*rd might on the other hand feel that it's only being done to allow more teams to enter without having to add space/time to the event.
Also, entry fees have been raised. Some of this will cover the expenses that will go towards the reffing, and some of it will be used as prize money.
Okay, I can see the benefit in the reffing issue, but very few teams will see any divident from the money that's going towards the prizes.
And what's the deal with this non BYO thing?
I can see why some paint is banned, but surely it is well known which paint stains, and which doesn't.
What will happen now is small teams will not be able to use the discounts they get at their local shops to get paint to bring with them. Instead they will have to make do with whatever's being sold at that event. Chances are that they will have to pay more once they get there. Sure, paintprices aren't too steep at the events right now, but with any possible local competition being killed, paintdealers can pretty much sell their stuff for whatever pricetag they want. So the small teams will have to pay out their ass if they want to stay brand loyal, or have to go bargain hunting and will most likely end up buying El Crappo paint, because it was cheap...and end up killing people because the paintballs are rocklike.
C'mon, this is a daft rule. Just publish a list of what is allowed, and what isn't. What colours are okay from a certain brand/type, and which aren't, that sort of stuff. Easy as hell, and better for paintball in general than this current rule.
As it is now, more money is being squeezed from the players, while they get less in return. Potentially 30% less playing time, and I'm willing to bet that within a few years the number of games teams play in the prelims will be cut too. Why? Because it allows more teams to partake in an event, while at the same time paying a higher entry fee. That's a lot of extra cash going somewhere.
Someone on a Dutch paintball forum said something that made me laugh, but he has a point: "Pretty soon we'll only be allowed to shoot markers made by companies that have a trade stand at the events."

 

[Dannefaerd]

Wow - a lot of very fundemental changes .... but what about the change of playing field size .... down to 1,650m2 now!

 

[Baca Loco]

Jay, I could'a written that!

Nice job, Big Boy.
Game times: too true. (For Nick--asked you once before, if 7 minutes is so much better, how 'bout 5 minutes? Now we're really cooking!)
Paint: over here it's typically not a problem. At events everyone can get decent paint at a good price most of the time. What they can't seem to figure out is which paints actually stain despite the notebook sized regs.
Field size: now conforms to NPPL standards--approx.

About the guns--if they thought they could make it work it would happen. And yes, I'm both cynical and conspiratorial.

 

[Buddha 3]

Jay

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I disagree with you here dude.

1) Less time DOES promote more aggressive play. - And yes, it allows more teams to take part as well...... win/win here !

2) If you have a local paint deal, I'm certain you can get that local distributor to have your paint delivered by his supplier at the event - otherwise my advice is to shift brands because you are getting crappy service !

3) You have to take into consideration, that when you allow teams to BYO to the event, you either can't control what they shoot - or have to have a rigorous control method in place.

The way it is being done now is easier.

Nick

1) I neversaid that I thought more teams was a bad thing. Personally I have no problem with a 7 minute gametime, as it cuts back on the time I spend in the deadbox
If this was a change on it's own, it wouldn't have triggered much reaction from me. As it is combined with a few other things, it is obvious that it's not meant as an "improvement for the players", it just means mo' money. (not per se a bad motivation though)

2) I doubt it. It doesn't effect me, because I'm lucky enough to have a good hook up, but let's have a hypothetical scenario here.
Let's say team A from Luxembourg shoots brand X paint. They get their paint from a nearby shop/site in Belgium. This shop in turn gets it's paint from a wholesaler who buys his paint from the European distributor. The shop gives the guys on the team a discount because he fancies the sister of the captain, and because they help him out with marshalling from time to time.
So team A has a deal with the shop, but the guys that will show up to sell paint at the events are most likely to be the European distributors. And I seriously doubt that they will have a list of teams with them that states what teams use their paint, where they get it from, and at what price. It would simply be too much hassle for an already hardpressed group of people.
So more likely then not team A will be told they can only buy brand X at the event-price. Unless you are sponsored by the bigger fish almost directly, you can forget about getting on some list like that.

3) Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that when I walk into the team staging area with 10 boxes of Hellfire tucked under my arms they are going to ask me for a receipt to show where I got it from? And if they did, do you honestly think that would be easier than just publishing a list of brands and their colours that won't stain? After all, Hellfire only comes in one colour.

 

[BaddahBoom]

are we talking Millenium 2004

or NPPL EUROpe Part 1 ??

in general and i am not talking Prolevel here it seems that
we Nov's & AM's are confronted with higher costs
and not that much more quality (at first sight)

Price Money is nice but for the Happy few

Good service considering Paintdeals also for the the same happy few
Payed Marshalling Necessary for the Happy Few and almost happy few

Smaller Fields ??
what is the format 7 Men or XBall with 7players a side ??

about the Event paint only

how about teams showing up with vouchers from their local shop/distributors for an X amount boxes of paint
U show the voucher and get the "NON" staining paint on site
this way u still get the paint that "doesn't " stain at the price u could have brought your own paint.

The local shop handles the money issues for the X boxes at his own agreed prices with his distributor/manufacturer.


Otherwise i think the higher costs EntryFee & paintprices will stop teams from visiting the same amount or more Mill events as they participated in during the 2003 season

and that would be a shame
especially since it looks like PB is growing in Europe

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
And what's the deal with this non BYO thing?
I can see why some paint is banned, but surely it is well known which paint stains, and which doesn't.

Recently reported on Warpig...

Originally posted on Warpig
Another controversy surrounded the issue of staining paint. The NPPL has previously prohibited the use of staining paint, but not until a September 2003 rules change has the league had a clear definition of staining paint in order to more easily allow or prohibit its use. According to rule 1.11 any team using prohibited items including red paintballs, electronic surveillance devices, incendiary devices or forbidden paintballs would be ejected from the tournament, forfeit their points earned therein, and pay a five hundred dollar fine. One point eleven also states that paint will be tested for acceptability under a set of guidelines for water solubility and three types of tests for staining. The first test involves its ability to stain a piece of glossy paper. If the results of the paper test are disputed, the rules specify testing with the palm of a human hand. In the paper and skin tests, vibrant stains indicate that the paint has failed the test, but if the stain "remains slightly visible but is not vibrant, it is deemed to have passed." A third type of stain test is described for testing the ability to stain a piece of white poly/cotton tee shirt material. After washing, any visible stain constitutes a failure of this test. In an effort to finally bring an end to the problems associated with staining paint, the NPPL widely publicized the new rules through the league web site and press releases making the rule change and testing criteria widely available.

On the morning of the first day of competition, Pursuit Marketing International (PMI) was prohibited from selling their Ultra Evil paintballs on the grounds that they were staining paint. After protesting, and demonstrating with a skin stain test that other brands of paint allowed for use also produced stains, PMI was allowed to sell their paint, pending further testing to be performed Friday night. NPPL scrutineer Dave Zinkham performed cloth staining tests on several brands of paint used at the tournament. According to Zinkham, the Ultra Evil produced less of a stain than some of the other brands tested, and all of the paintballs tested left at least some sort of stain on the fabric after washing. PMI was permitted to sell Ultra Evil paint for the remainder of the tournament, and no teams were fined for using staining paint during the preliminary rounds.

You really think they will be able to enforce such rules? It was nice not to see any 'pink paint' at Campaign huh? apart from on bunkers on the fields that is...

Returning to the days of no BYOP... I'm not convinced that is a step forwards, but I saw it coming years ago when they said you can only use paint from companies that were sponsoring the Millennium Series. Jay's right, where will the line be drawn? If you can't use the paint from an external sponsor why should you be allowed to use a marker or item of clothing from a company that isn't sponsoring the event? I'm wondering what the difference is exactly? Is it really due to the 'staining' from non sanctioned paints? If that's the case why were we already not allowed to use paints from companies not sponsoring the events?

 

[Rabies]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Someone on a Dutch paintball forum said something that made me laugh, but he has a point: "Pretty soon we'll only be allowed to shoot markers made by companies that have a trade stand at the events."

You're laughing at that? Stop right now If certain parties get their way with the NPPL (the effects of which will predictably filter their way down to the Millenniums) any electro marker you use would have to be on an "approved" list - "to prevent the use of electronic cheats", they say. Yeah right.

It really is time the sponsors had less say in tournament rules.

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Rabies
If certain parties get their way with the NPPL (the effects of which will predictably filter their way down to the Millenniums) any electro marker you use would have to be on an "approved" list - "to prevent the use of electronic cheats", they say. Yeah right.

Yeah that will work

Pandora's box is open. You/they will never close it.

 

[Baca Loco]

Baca

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I think the basic concept is 1 minute per player on a team.

5-man has been played as 5-minute games for years.

Nick

Yeah, that one minute per player per side thing has been a standard everywhere, hasn't it?

Wait a minute. PSP 10-man was, until this year, previously 20 minutes, then 15 minutes and most recently 12 minutes and when, in a brief moment of overreaching, the PSP thought to make the 10-man games 10 minutes that lasted about a week. And PSP 5-man games have been 10-minutes for as long as I can remember.
Hasn't seemed to prove detrimental to aggressive play over here.

You are, however, correct in suggesting everyone in Euroland who is concerned about the future direction of PB had better sign up with the EPA immediately, if not sooner.

 

[tubbie]

Jay, I could'a written that!

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Nice job, Big Boy.
Game times: too true. (For Nick--asked you once before, if 7 minutes is so much better, how 'bout 5 minutes? Now we're really cooking!)
Paint: over here it's typically not a problem. At events everyone can get decent paint at a good price most of the time. What they can't seem to figure out is which paints actually stain despite the notebook sized regs.
Field size: now conforms to NPPL standards--approx.

About the guns--if they thought they could make it work it would happen. And yes, I'm both cynical and conspiratorial.

Game times is a thing i can live with, but what is the justification for upping entry fee?? what do you get more? price money for the lucky few?

I can understand why you are changing it to a non-BYO event, since you can make the tradestand owner and paint sponsors pay more, and still keep them happy, since they will be selling loads of paint at the tournament now(a thing which wasn't happening now since many (local) teams were bringing their own paint bought at local prices and maybe sponsored discount prices). A thing to consider is that what might sound like a reasonable paint price to you guys, might not some players from other country's especially when they are getting sponsored.Overhere (holland & belgium) paint is a lot cheaper than for example in the UK, when you take into account that most dutch teams have some kind of deal to get their paint with even more of a discount does it sound reasonable that they might have to pay 10/15 euro's a box more at the millenium series?? i don't think so!, this can make a big difference for team since 20 x 15 = 300 euro's more they have to spend!

I am also sorry to see that the players once again are forced to pay more for something the paint producers are doing wrong (e.g. producing staining paint), and i think this is a wrong thing the millenium staff should just produce a list of paints allowed, marshalls in the field can easily enough recognize if staining paint is used, if a team is caught using it they should immidiatly be removed from the site, i believe if you'r really strict about this(no exceptions not for pro/novice/am teams) this will make alot of teams think twice about using the prohibited brands.

Maybe somebody could post they amount that sponsors and tradestand owners have to pay in order to be present at the millenium this and last year, might clear up a few things....

Tubbie