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Maxs Masters - Finals & various problems

Robbo

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Originally posted by Jerry Braun
Mark,
I can't answer that question regarding the Millennium Series, but it was retired by the NPPL Rules Committee for two reasons. First, to further legitimize paintball as a true sport, games must be won or lost on the playing field within the game's time frame. To assess penalties after the game, and hence, after the fact, flies in the face of that concept. Second, it is too easy to take actions to frustrate the intent of chronoing to insure safe limits of firepower after the game when you know that you will be chronoed. It is much better to aggressively chrono during a game when there is less likelyhood of chicanery. I believe that it has worked well thus far, but only if the marshals are not lax in their duties, but I guess that's always the case.

Jerry, loathe as I am to take issue with you again but I'm afraid the well used English phrase of 'Talking absolute bollocks' springs immediately to mind when I just read your post..
First off, you seem to be of the notion, that post-game assessment of markers, plays or should play no part in the sport of paintball.
And the reason you give?
Hold on, I'm gonna choke at this point, is because, Oh My God, turn up the scmhaltzometer, here it comes,

'it was retired by the NPPL Rules Committee for two reasons. First, to further legitimise paintball as a true sport, games must be won or lost on the playing field within the game's time frame. To assess penalties after the game, and hence, after the fact, flies in the face of that concept.'

R U kiddin me ?
Let me give you a gentle prod in the direction of the greatest sporting body in the world, 'Hello McBraun', The International Olympics Committee !!!!!!
Ever heard of them ?
That same august body who drug test athletes post events and work on the premise, that if the test proves positive i.e. that athlete was deemed to have taken an illegal substance, then that athlete should not only be banned but have whatever medals they won, taken away.
Basically, the game should be won on-field as you say but if that athlete was running around with a gun that was firing over the legal limit, then he should be punished in some way, NO ARGUMENT !!!!!!!
You seem to hold on-field actions as inviolate whereas the notion that perhaps (and in some cases more than likely) those people played ON-FIELD with illegal markers and therefore cheated their result , is deemed to be of lesser importance!!!

The whole idea of post game assessment and penalty allocation is embraced by the IOC and yet you want us to think it has no place in paintball because you want to legitimise it as a sport ?

You think that Paintball is bigger than the Olympics ????????????

<----- Just gone into ‘vomit’ mode

And your qualifier in this enlightened piece of legislature is that people could prepare for this chronographing because they knew it would come at the end of the game, and also, they would be more fearful of on-field chronographing.
Correct up to a point.
I have been to more tournaments than you and I both care to mention, I have never and I mean never seen a comprehensive and meaningful assault with regard to on-field chronographing.
The most I have ever seen chronographed in one game is two players from one team.
R U telling me that in today's climate of judge's (And by extension promoter's) inaction coupled with some players predisposition to engineer cheats on their guns, that this is the best climate to introduce no 'end of game' chronographing.

When safety is, and should be, the number one consideration in paintball, a 'belt and braces' programme of on-field and off-field chronographing is by far the best strategy.
Every player I know, has no problem with being chronographed at any time, you start to introduce areas of weakness (and it would be a weakness, make no mistake about that) and you will have every frikkin cheat exploiting it to the detriment of the safety of the rest of us who do not feel the need to turn up our guns to play ball.
Damnit Jerry, and there was me thinking you couldn't shoot a barn door with a paintball marker and you just damn shot yourself in the foot !!!!!
Good shot mate !!! :)
(by the way, that was irony, I know I have to explain 'irony' sometimes to you Yanks)

Laters Jez :)
Pete
 

Robbo

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Re: Jean !

Originally posted by JeanManuel


Pete, I was looking for your e-mail to tell you something like that when I saw that message of yours.
Please send me an e-mail. I allow you right now to make public what we will say in that discussion if you feel it should be done, but I would like to have it directly with you first.
Regards
Jean-Manuel
Jean, robbo@paintballgamesmag.com
 

RePete

Imature member
Chrono-ing (Both pre and post games) has got to be the most inconsistent part of the rules in NZ in the past. Some times they're strict about the pre-game chrono and some times they're not. Some times there are clearing shots, some times there are not. Some times it's three over the chrono, some times it's one clear one over....Bloody hell. We have a ratified set of rules created by the NZPPA, but they keep changing.

Do most people agree the whole point of the chronograph is safety? And the penalties assessed should be a deterrent from using a hot gun. Chrono frequently. Chrono always. And make the penalties so high, that no one will even consider using a hot gun, or pushing the limit, or God forbid, turn up their marker while they're on the field.

Our rules have been changed recently to Pre-game: Everyone, three over the chrono, no clearing. Post game: two or three players with three over the chrono, after three clearing. I don't understand the inconsistency. How about three over, no clearing, before and after. What do the clearing shots do? Give your marker a chance to get a bit of drop off and lower your potential speed? At every tourney everyone always asks "Do we get clearing shots?". Either have them all the time or not at all.

We do not have on-field chronographing yet. But it seems ludicrous to remove the post game chronographing for any reason to me. Absolutely mind-boggling. As for Jerry's comment about "Deciding the game on the field" making Paintball more legit, I humbly submit that I can't see that, and Robbo's comments about other games (And the Olympics are a good example) with post-game evaluation effecting the eventual outcome, is spot on.

Cheers,
RePete
The Judean People's Front ;)
 

Mark

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To tie in with Jerry and Pete and also Repete.

In an ideal world everyone should be the same but individuals skill should be the deciding factor, so too should it be in paintball. F1 let all the cars race within the rules set out prior to any race being run and then after the race the cars are checked by scrutineers to ensure that the cars conformed to the rules, James Hunt many years ago was denied a Grand Prix win and if I remember rightly the world championship for that year cos it was found that his tires were larger than the others in contravention of the rules so he was stripped of points and thus the championship, (if it wasn't the championship it certainly was his points and the race) Either way this was decided after the race had finished, the same applies in the World Rallye circuit both of the former are huge money spinners.

Jerry you know I will abide by the rules laid down at any tournament and enforce those rules at the chrono as allowed within the same rules, this was just a personal opinion giving my feelings as to why it shouldn't have been removed from ANY not just the NPPL tournament circuit, with this new ruling left in place in the rule book of ANY tournament then that leaves that tournament open to abuse from any of the participants playing that tournament.

It would seem also that my post has started something totally different now (sorry) and also the part of discharging guns after a game...6 shots and looking at the display screen (a post earlier in this thread) was over looked so perhaps my interpration of the rules in that respect was correct but then with no aftergame chronoing nothing will happen.
 

NIALL

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A complete set of uniform rules, globally recognised, free from the involvement of the promoter or vested interests.

All that is missing from the make up of the disciplinary committee is a french man. So far the board is thus.

Chris Gosling (AKA Goose Ugly Ducklings)
Pete Martin (Rushers)
Sandy Hubbard (AKA BIG SID) Cameronians/Escarmouche
Joern Windler (Tournament Ultimate at Max, Lawyer)

One more to go. Hopefully french...

Thank you for all your enquiries, sorry if I have not given everone a personal reply. Your response has been gratefully received.. but as you will appreciate we need a spread of geography as well as status.

Can all of the above get in touch so we can get going....

Niall

PS Magued.. Came inches from throwing in the towel bud. I must be a sucker for punishment.
 
Niall

I was under the impression that no organiser/promoter was going to sit on this comittee? Also the comittee should be independant of any ultimate judges.
And as a side issue, Pete now lives in Australia, might make it a little tricky for him to attend if required?!?
 

Robbo

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Niall

Originally posted by ascutt
I was under the impression that no organiser/promoter was going to sit on this comittee? Also the comittee should be independant of any ultimate judges.
And as a side issue, Pete now lives in Australia, might make it a little tricky for him to attend if required?!?

Wrong Pete Martin !!!
The one Niall is reffering to is Pete Martin of the Tigers and a person well able to do the job, believe me !!!!!
 

fierce

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Joern was just Ultimate Assistent for the Maxs Masters. In the past years he made the german rulebook, so trust him and his work.
 

NIALL

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I have not been approached by "Big" Pete Martin.. If I had he would be high up my list. So I refer to the other one!!

Despite Pete Martin (Rushers) being in Australia I do not see this as a handicap. By the wonders of the internet all will be able to stay in touch. I have known Pete for years and trust his judgement, and he will always argue his point if he feels it is valid.

Joern has been recommended to me by several people most notably Robbo, his understanding of the law will be a great help. He has no ties to any promoter.

Sid, well most of you know about this guys passion for the sport and despite the handicap of being Scottish has overcome this to be quite a cool geezer..

Finally my number one choice has always been Goose.. so lets get it on.

Scutty, don't feel aggreived chap if I haven't asked you...The fact that you are close to Campaign is reason enough not to ..

So come on French people. We only need one of you.

Niall