London attacks - what's going on???

[Nickyboy]

Originally posted by HERMITT
The government has already stated (Charles Clarke) that ID cards would not have stopped the attacks on Thursday. They would also have very little benefit in the prevention of terrorism. This directly from a government that has said that it wants them.

Stricter controls on chemicals would also fail to help since the high explosives were not made they were bought.

The govenment says a lot buddy, from your other posts it seems you already know that though.

Ok, I havn't heard any info on the bombs yet, but if the explosives were manufactured here, then the chemicals were either imported or bought here. If the explosives were bought abroad, then brought here, both of these circumstances could have been ironed out by tighter customs.

I don't believe in far fetched ways or sorting out problems like this, hence why I place my belief on border control as a remedy.

 

[frahill]

From what i understand they believe that these people were led by a higher governing body, from what i have read a lot of the people who seem to stir up this hatred within the islamic community tend to have claimed asylum, the main person i can think of is the abul 'Dr Hook' hamza, it was a joke he was ever granted asylum and left to his evil ways, was he ever arrested for inciting racial hatred, because im pretty sure that if i went about shouting how all non catholics should be killed i would get nicked for it.

 

[manike]

Originally posted by duffistuta
No, because you can tell when the robot catches a cheat, find me one - one - instance anywhere where a terrorist was caught cos he had or didn't have an ID card.

You won't be able to.

I agree with Hermitt's post above.

Erm many 'unfavourable' people have been turned away at immigrations or put under watch because of their passports. Obviously a passport is just a glorified ID card.

It happens all the time. People are often turned away, I've been in a queue at a bar in Dallas when a guy was turned away after they scanned his licence. I asked why and it was because he'd 'caused trouble' on several previous occasions.

Those are just small occasions, it must have happened on a larger scale at some point.

 

[Magued]

Good debate.

I have to say that Duffy is extremly intelligent.
A pleasure to read hes post that are educated and accurat.
But offcourse I understand the rage England feel after such horrible attack. As I understand the rage people in other countrys feel after they have been attacked.

My guess would be that if everybody stopped attacking and bombing the violence would stop.

Magued

 

[HERMITT]

My current understanding of the explosives used was that they were a weapons grade, industrial/military explosive. This was not manufactured by the terrorists or any linked organisation.

 

[frahill]

Where the hell do they get this stuff, then again i bet its like anything if you know someone whos in the know shouldnt be hard to pick some up.

 

[HERMITT]

Well for many years we gave them it for free. It is also readily available if you indulge in a spot of industrial mining or in fact oil exploration!

 

[Ben Frain]

Originally posted by HERMITT
Ben Frain - 'Offing' terrorists is all well and good but who's to say that the person you are killing is a terrorist. With the mistakes our intelligence service make on a regular basis i cant say i would be happy with a mandate that allows them to that kind of thing. Just look at how many miscarriages of justice came from the Irish troubles!

I suppose this point all comes down to what each person finds acceptable.

For example your 'miscarriage of justice' would be my 'necassary evil'.

I believe that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or to put it another way, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

I don't disagree with yours and Duffistuta's sentiments about liberty and personal freedom being the hallmarks of democracy above all others, I genuinely find those very positive notions. But as Robbo has intimated I think that way of thinking in the current climate protects the minority and endangers the majority.

I would rather feel things were the other way around.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by manike
Erm many 'unfavourable' people have been turned away at immigrations or put under watch because of their passports. Obviously a passport is just a glorified ID card.

It happens all the time. People are often turned away, I've been in a queue at a bar in Dallas when a guy was turned away after they scanned his licence. I asked why and it was because he'd 'caused trouble' on several previous occasions.

Those are just small occasions, it must have happened on a larger scale at some point.

Then maybe I'm missing something, but don't we already have passports and licences? And you've said they work, so remind me again why we need ID cards as well?

 

[HERMITT]

Ben Frain - Unless of course it was you that they picked on one night! These laws are there to protect us all and our liberties. You only notice how privaleged you are when those are taken away. Please do not think that just because you have nothing to hide that a micarriage couldnt possibly affect you since that is the very basis of the definition.

Being put in jail by mistake is one thing, pulling the trigger and then going 'my bad' is a whole other game and one that i would hope even you could realise is not the basis of a great nation.