London attacks - what's going on???

[Nickyboy]

So who did it? Was it Al Queda, was it the IRA, was it the skinheads? Who knows?

Well the british people don't know at the moment and will probably never know, so don't listen to Blair go on about how good it is that the muslim community has denounced the attacks and so on. Patronising and blame provoking Mr Blair. Tut tut.

 

[Mario]

now i know not to take what the newspapers say as the gods honest truth, but considering that police briefings have said that they believe the terrorists to have been either young dissillusioned educated muslims, or terrorists coming in on a 'day trip' from mainland europe so to speak, we could safely assume that there is probably some sort of al quaeda influence could we not?

Also im guessing the reason blair was praising those in the muslim community for speaking out against terrorism is that if they didn't then many uneductaed white people would see this as them condoning terrorism against us and our way of life. Im sure that he's congratulated leaders of all faiths for speaking up against terrorsim but it makes sense for the news teams to show only that of mr blair praising the muslim council.

i couldn't give a f*ck who did it. all i know is someone did and someones gotta pay for that.

skeet - i wasn't having a go, just giving a reason why they shouldn't be shot. far better for them to be caged for the rest of their lives in a small windowless box surely?

 

[Nickyboy]

Couple of points to think about:
Is there actually an Al Queda?
Why isn't it young dissillusioned christians?
Did Blair need to talk about faith or religion at all without knowing it was anything to do with either?

And personally I dissagree with all of this "Get the terrorists back" attitude. A terrorist is now so loosely defined by the government, who have the power to lock you up without trial should they deem you to be a terrorist. It's becoming a path and excuse to take away your human rights, and lets not forget that innocent brits spent up to 3 years in Quantanimo as terrorists, only to be declassed of this title upon arriving shortly back in the UK. The people from thursday were BOMBERS.
It really matters who did this as well, the reasons for doing it are the main driver of the violence. Things like this don't happen for no reason, and maybe the government and white trash can get over the muslim thing, hoping they find someone plausible to pin it on.
Bin ladin anyone?

 

[F3Z]

have to say mario, have u seen a modern day prison recently?? its better than butlins nowadays, although i wouldnt want to be stuck at butlins for 10 years btu still. So i agree with both shootign the *******s in the knee caps and arms then cutting small bits off them each week as a reminder of the suffering they have caused. Then i would tattoe british emblems all over them for embarsment and then finally a bit of chinese tortue wouldnt go a miss. Hmm but thats me.

Call them what u like, terrorists, bombers or whatever you call them, I still see them asking to have there ass handed to them on a plate.

Now for the students, you marched against war, against bush and against tony blair and yes the powers let up abit on the whole war situation. Now look what happens were pulling troops out, trying to make peace and we get bombed! Now if your loved ones were involved or maybe even yourself maybes its time to rethink ur standings and opinions on what our govements have been trying to stop!

On a lighter note, xbox live at Just what a plan!

 

[frahill]

Spoke to my mum last night and her local bus had a suspicious package on it, closed road off 1/2 mile each way and did a controlled explosion, kinda worrying as it wasnt even a big bus its one of those little ones that goes between Ashton and Stockport (Manchester Way).

I get the train every morning from Manchester Picadilly, havent had any delays but can tell you ive never seen so many police in one place for a while.

People seem to be vary wary i noticed three people today asking people if the caes were theirs.

 

[HERMITT]

If you actively encourage and pursue a foreign policy that is hostile to muslim nations over a number of decades, it stands to reason that retribution will come looking for you. This has been the recruiting cry from terrorist groups all over the planet.

I'm in no way condoning what happened or trying to justify it. This happened because of what we as a country have done. The war in Iraq was justified on many levels, all apart from the one we were sold. However, it is our handling of the aftermath and the continued inabillity to bring peace in the middle east that has put us in the place we are now.

We started this years ago when our troops trained and educated the Taleban in the art of guerrila warfare. We even trained so called terrorists in Northumbria. We supplied the money, the weapons and the know how on the assumption that our enemies enemy is our ally. This is a narrow minded and clearly futile approach to the ever complex movements of global politics.

As long as we continue to class these as muslim extremists (i didnt hear the IRA being called Catholic extremists!), as long as we continue to pursue such short term narrow minded foreign policies then we shall have to bare the awful consequences.

The people that died in this horrific act should not be used as political pawns they deserve dignity and respect. Let us hope we can do this and that the politicians will understand the importance.

 

[Ben Frain]

Originally posted by HERMITT
If you actively encourage and pursue a foreign policy that is hostile to muslim nations over a number of decades, it stands to reason that retribution will come looking for you. This has been the recruiting cry from terrorist groups all over the planet.

I'm in no way condoning what happened or trying to justify it. This happened because of what we as a country have done. The war in Iraq was justified on many levels, all apart from the one we were sold. However, it is our handling of the aftermath and the continued inabillity to bring peace in the middle east that has put us in the place we are now.

We started this years ago when our troops trained and educated the Taleban in the art of guerrila warfare. We even trained so called terrorists in Northumbria. We supplied the money, the weapons and the know how on the assumption that our enemies enemy is our ally. This is a narrow minded and clearly futile approach to the ever complex movements of global politics.

As long as we continue to class these as muslim extremists (i didnt hear the IRA being called Catholic extremists!), as long as we continue to pursue such short term narrow minded foreign policies then we shall have to bare the awful consequences.

The people that died in this horrific act should not be used as political pawns they deserve dignity and respect. Let us hope we can do this and that the politicians will understand the importance.

Hermitt, I'm curious...

I think everyone can accept that the reasons we were given for going to war in Iraq were highly questionable. I also can see the cycle of violence between the middle east countries and the west pre and post 9/11. However, without simply saying 'we should have done this or we should have done that' What do you think would be the best tack for Britain's goverment to take NOW to sort out the Foreign Policies and just as importantly deal with the terrorist activities of certain minority groups of Muslims in the UK?

How do you feel the problem could or should be fixed?

My views are often a little 'to the right' when it comes to such problems but I would like to know what ideas you (someone I perceive from previous debates to be a little more middle/left) perhaps have.

 

[Skeet]

skeet - i wasn't having a go, just giving a reason why they shouldn't be shot. far better for them to be caged for the rest of their lives in a small windowless box surely? [/B]

I know that mate!
Well..trouble is, as F3Z said, they wouldnt stiock them in a window less box, as that would most likely, contravine some human right, that they allegedly deserve...also, it means the likes of the TAX payer, has to keep them...better toi just make them public knowledge, put posters up of them...and let the public, or sharp eyed copper, sort them out....make them feel like the entire world, outside their door, hates them...thats a prison sentence in itself, its cheaper, and best of all, most likely will end in a death sentence...

 

[Mario]

Originally posted by Nickyboy
Couple of points to think about:
Is there actually an Al Queda?
Why isn't it young dissillusioned christians?
Did Blair need to talk about faith or religion at all without knowing it was anything to do with either?

hmm...considering there are terrorists who call themselve something along the lines of 'the european jihad of al qaueda' i would say that strongly suggests that yes there could very well be an al quaeda...
why isn't it dissillusioned young christians? as christians weve been there done that... thats tongue in cheek - ive seen my fair share of damage done by bombs - i grew up in belfast. fact of the matter is bombs dont work anymore for the IRA. they know this so they dont bother. For extremeist muslims they just dont care. its not about politics - its about destroying the 'infidels'. We as christians have already been there, but it was back in the days when swords and shields were used.
how do you know he didn't know it wasn't anything to do with either faith or religion. you like me are basing your arguments on what we know. i should think he has access to a lot more wide ranging information than either of us do. were both shooting fish in a barrel.

im not trying to provoke a fight or get into some heavy mother trucking deabte. its all my own opinion just like yours.

hermitt the IRA were classed as extremeists, just in certain circles...

skeet - point taken, but surely thats what makes us better than them?

 

[Matski]

Back during the troubles in Ireland, the SAS did assassinate IRA hit squads/bombers to stop them executing their plans. The ambush of the East Tyrone "A Team" in Loughhall for example took place as the team were on their way to murder many people. Im sure that if the intelligence had been available, the bombing of our capital would have been stopped by any means necessary. However, gathering the kind of intelligence to know exactly when an attack is going to occur down to the time and date must require a major level of infiltration into the gang's circle. Due to obvious ethnic/culture/religious differences I can't see how this is ever gonna be possible.

Im starting to believe that the only way to really prevent this kinda thing is the growth of a 'big brother' society where calls, emails etc are monitored and those with nothing to fear go about their lives blissfully ignorant and those with something to fear are monitored and stopped where needed. Theres the whole 'that aint ethical debate'; but can loss of privacy really be weighed up against lives?...