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Joy Stockholm official comment on OC NPPL

Wadidiz

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Yo, Steverino. Happy Generic Seasonal Holiday Greetings to you. (Wouldn't want to offend anybody, now would we?)
Happy Monday to yous too.

How 'bout zip, zero, nada, bupkiss
OK, so maybe I exaggerated a little bit.:) At least, perhaps, reversing the suspensions was better than ignoring the whole shebang. And Magued seems to get at least some satisfaction and vindication out of all this.

But what about the other, more important, stuff in my post? What about the gaping deficiencies in NPPLs passé format and the inadequate rules? What about a 60 second rule (if the format doesn't get binned altogether)? I'm also curious to hear some educated speculation about how things would have gone down on an NXL field.
 

Revolt

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Not sure I agree with the above bit. Their top judge has been proven wrong, they were quick to slap a ban on a team, they reverse the call, but the other team gets only a warning (still wonder what that means...). In other words, there are different penalties for the same offense for different teams. Weird.
But, I do feel that they have done the right thing in reversing the ban call, and not reversing the outcome of the game. The problem here is that either way things would suck. Don't change a thing and at least half the world would scream bloody murder and 'your refs suck', reverse the penalty and 'your refs still suck'. The lesser of two evils. Any reverse like this indicates a problem within your organisation. I think we all now know what the problem in this case is. This MUST learn to lessons learned and certain changes for next season.
I'd say that the matter has been handled correctly, but not that it equals good publicity.
So yes, it was the best thing to do, but I don't think it'll be good publicity. Kinda like the US elections of 2000 were not good publicity for democracy.

I think that the main decider on how good or bad this has been will be any changes that come out of this.

Oh, and I'm doing good my man. How is yourself doing? What will you be doing next season?
well as im not entirely sure of the rules of the nppl, what is the "proper" penalty for pulling back a player, as surely bc could of only gotten a 1 4 1 at worst anyway, fraige on the other hand?
 

Robbo

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Far be it from me to paint any dark clouds on the whole debacle but I wonder how resolute the 'readjustment' would have been had the team involved been outside of the WDP stable...has this sport of ours positioned me too far into the warm embrace of cynicism or has my team's experience in Chicago a couple of years back justified my opinion?
Hmmmm.... I'm sooooo glad I'm outa that scene now .... I think my head would have exploded or I would have easily committed obscene dollops of violence on somebody ... either way, I got a better, more sedate life now :)
 

Wadidiz

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well as im not entirely sure of the rules of the nppl, what is the "proper" penalty for pulling back a player, as surely bc could of only gotten a 1 4 1 at worst anyway, fraige on the other hand?
21.03 Three-Game Suspension. Players may be suspended, causing the team to play short for three games for the following infractions:
(2) Physical contact during or after play that does not result in injury (e.g., shove, grab, shoulder-bump).

These rules may also apply here:

19.04 Two-for-One. Assessment of the two-for-one rule (the removal of the player committing the infraction and two teammates) may take place for the following infractions:
(1) Playing-On. Player continues to play after an obvious hit and materially
alters of the course of the game.

20.02 Elimination of Last Player. If the last player on a team is found to have been playing on with an obvious hit or wiping then the other team will automatically be awarded the pull and the hang.
 

Revolt

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so dynasty should have to play teh first 3 games of next season starting with 4 players, if the rules were enforced correctly

ach well, atleast now everyone knows joy division romp ^_^
 

Wadidiz

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Notice the language:

21.03 Three-Game Suspension. Players may be suspended, causing the team to play short for three games for the following infractions:
(2) Physical contact during or after play that does not result in injury (e.g., shove, grab, shoulder-bump).

19.04 Two-for-One. Assessment of the two-for-one rule (the removal of the player committing the infraction and two teammates) may take place for the following infractions:
(1) Playing-On. Player continues to play after an obvious hit and materially
alters of the course of the game.

20.02 Elimination of Last Player. If the last player on a team is found to have been playing on with an obvious hit or wiping then the other team will automatically be awarded the pull and the hang.

If anyone even pays attention to the wording then it seems to me that the penalties are optional. That means you're a dizick if you actually pull the penalties; an attitude that is still far too pervasive. How many times have you watched games in any league and seen refs who would finally get around to seeing a hit a player has been wearing and simply call 'em out and pulls their armband, no penalty?

I can read in some old NPPL rulebooks how they were wrestling with that attitude. They added lines to their playing on rules: "..the penalty must be assessed..." But nevertheless if you're 100% percent consistent in enforcing the rules for playing on (which includes staying still after you're hit) then you will--as a ref--get a lot of flak.

In my opinion they should change the verbs "may" and "will automatically" to "shall". Then they ought to do something radical: enforce the playing on rules just like the rules are written. Pull a penalty every single time a player is still in the game wearing a hit. Pull two-for-ones like they were meant to be. If a ref sees paint break on a player, goes in and can't find the hit, pull a three-for-one, every time.

ALL the top teams' players are going to stay in wearing a hit as long as they possibly can, dependent upon their assessment of the overall reffing and the refs in their area. If you assess a penalty against such a player after you ran in and pulled an armband for an obvious, self-checkable hit, he will call you a prick or a Nazi and say, "But you were watching me!"

Baca has pointed out his cynism to rules and rulebooks because they tend not to be worth the paper they're written on. Missy even pointed it out in a concise post regarding a certain league's reffing problems: consistency. We need good, clear, well-written but--most of all--REAL rules that are really meant.

Some good, hands-on officiating leadership is required to shapen these things up in all the leagues. Otherwise this cancer will keep growing and players will have to keep wasting time practicing skills that aren't really to do with paintball.
 

Robbo

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There is one other thing we need more than a rigorous and comprehensive rule book....and that's the balls to enforce the rules we have.
We don't even do that now with an ambiguous, inadequate rule book and this lack of enforcement has got little to do with the ambiguity or inadequacy and everything to do with the political environment in which the pro scene is so lovingly embraced.

The culture has to change !!!
 

Wadidiz

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There is one other thing we need more than a rigorous and comprehensive rule book....and that's the balls to enforce the rules we have...The culture has to change !!!...
Totally agree. And a part of what I was trying to say in an overly verbose way. This change needs to be both in the rulebooks and in the stones to simply follow the rules every single time regardless. If the words are consistent with the public education (website, captains' meetings) and with the real practice during games, then there's even less excuse.
...I wonder how resolute the 'readjustment' would have been had the team involved been outside of the WDP stable...
What do you think would've happened or not happened if Dynasty's opposing team had been XSV?