Joy Stockholm official comment on OC NPPL

[Chicago]

Much of this is the result of a lack of a strong reffing program organization. If you want your refs to properly enforce penalties in the face of players who are going to make enforcing penalties unpleasant, you need reffing leadership that will both back you up when you do enforce the penalty AND make it even MORE unpleasant if you don't.


NPPL does not currently have anyone to do this and it shows.

 

[Beaker]

Much of this is the result of a lack of a strong reffing program organization. If you want your refs to properly enforce penalties in the face of players who are going to make enforcing penalties unpleasant, you need reffing leadership that will both back you up when you do enforce the penalty AND make it even MORE unpleasant if you don't.


NPPL does not currently have anyone to do this and it shows.

From PGi #214

The NPPL Pro refs will be recognized as the very best paintball referees in the world by the end of 2007 – that’s our goal and ultimately I hold myself accountable to achieve that.

Big words...

 

[Chicago]

From PGi #214



Big words...

Who were you quoting?

NXL has the best refs in the world. PSP is behind that, then MAYBE NPPL, hard to say. And PSP isn't all that great yet - there's been a lot of effort put in and PSP reffing is much better than it was a year ago, but I think it's foolish to expect instant change. PSP has shown that things CAN get better if you put the right effort into it, but it's going to get better slowly, not all at once.

PSP reffing probably wont' be GREAT for 2 more years. It'll be the best reffing outside of the NXL, but not great. NPPL, if they start now, is a year behind that. The only way I can see to accelerate reffing quality for both leagues is for them to start sharing refs in an organized manner. Hell, I'd even go so far as to pay refs to ref the other league - if I'm NPPL, I'd pay my refs $25/day to ref PSP events, on top of the PSP wage, to get them more experience.

 

[Beaker]

Bart.

And funny you should mention how to fix the reffing situation...check out 214 and 215 for a two part reffing special

 

[Baca Loco]

But what about the other, more important, stuff in my post? What about the gaping deficiencies in NPPLs passé format and the inadequate rules? What about a 60 second rule (if the format doesn't get binned altogether)? I'm also curious to hear some educated speculation about how things would have gone down on an NXL field.

Just remember, you asked.
Format--it is what it is. I don't really think it comes into play all that much tho I'll grant you it elevates the stakes.
Rules--You noted somewhere else I'm a cynic with regards rules and rulebooks. No so. I have simply argued, for quite a long time now, that too often the rules are designed to be massaged and allow some of the silliness we see over and over again when it comes to the officiating--or lack thereof. As you also noted the rules as written remain imperfect but they also continue to reflect the ambivalance of the establishment to actually enforcing clear, simple and precise rules which would go along way to solving much of the current problem.
60/90 second rule--don't like it, never have. In my opinion it's a rule that says, in effect, the officials can't control the game so we'll give them the power to render the outcome of a close match when they do lose control.
NXL result?--I don't doubt the NXL refs would have made immediate calls and thrown flags if called for in their minds. Would the calls have been "better"? Maybe, maybe not. The enforcement environment in the NXL is certainly different.

 

[Wadidiz]

...60/90 second rule--don't like it, never have. In my opinion it's a rule that says, in effect, the officials can't control the game so we'll give them the power to render the outcome of a close match when they do lose control...

I can see where you're coming from here but I believe the 90 second rule to be more of a recognition that the sushi is much more likely to hit the fan in those last seconds for obvious reasons, thus the need for a lock-down. It used to get ugly in X Ball when the final point was badly wanted/needed. Single-goal formats obviously need a lock-down in the final seconds too.

What would you say about the need for more two-for-ones in single-goal and maybe more majors for X Ball?

 

[Baca Loco]

I can see where you're coming from here but I believe the 90 second rule to be more of a recognition that the sushi is much more likely to hit the fan in those last seconds for obvious reasons, thus the need for a lock-down. It used to get ugly in X Ball when the final point was badly wanted/needed. Single-goal formats obviously need a lock-down in the final seconds too.

What would you say about the need for more two-for-ones in single-goal and maybe more majors for X Ball?

So you are saying what I'm saying--that the officials if push comes to shove can't control the game and because they can't control the game they need extraordinary powers to penalize. Sorry but that doesn't fly for me because in essence you are giving the officials an out and handing over the match result to a ref's call. Plainly there has to be a better way--like do the job right. Honestly I could sit down with the NXL crew for about twenty minutes and get that settled. Sure, it would take a bit of doing in action perhaps but the 90 second rule was (and remains) a cheap, easy way out and should be removed from the rule book. IMHO.

Nope. You always seem to fall back on the punitive, have you ever noticed that? We're playing a game for goodness' sake and the first priority ought to be creating the environment of a fair competition, a level playing field. What is required is consistency. Harsh or lenient, doesn't matter. Consistent is the critical element. What both inflames and infuriates players is the perception that the calls, of whatever magnitude, aren't being apportioned the same way. If you're going to call every unobvious hit then call them ALL, not just some of them. And if there is some leeway in judging between what is a minor offense and a major make sure all the officials are seeing it the same way or as close as you can get. None of this is rocket science.

 

[MissyQ]

Far be it from me to paint any dark clouds on the whole debacle but I wonder how resolute the 'readjustment' would have been had the team involved been outside of the WDP stable...has this sport of ours positioned me too far into the warm embrace of cynicism or has my team's experience in Chicago a couple of years back justified my opinion?

Are you fxxking kidding me?
Seriously, you think WDP are happy with either the initial outcome or this one? I thought for sure the fact that such a monumental decision went against a WDP team for the 3rd time this season (Rage in HB, Rage in Tampa, Joy in OC) would at least mean that only the most twisted of individuals could seriously claim (even in jest) that WDP have any influence over NPPL decision-making, let alone someone with all the experience and perspective you have.
Unbelievable.

If WDP had THAT kind of influence then Joy would have been given the OC game (and rightly so) and Rage may even have won the league. In my opinion bad reffing decisions have hurt Angel teams more than anyone else this season in the NPPL. Is that just a clever ruse by WDP? Are they throwing people off the scent by fixing it for their teams to get screwed? Seriously!!

 

[Robbo]

Are you fxxking kidding me?
Seriously, you think WDP are happy with either the initial outcome or this one? I thought for sure the fact that such a monumental decision went against a WDP team for the 3rd time this season (Rage in HB, Rage in Tampa, Joy in OC) would at least mean that only the most twisted of individuals could seriously claim (even in jest) that WDP have any influence over NPPL decision-making, let alone someone with all the experience and perspective you have.
Unbelievable.

FFS`Missy, for someone who ribs all comers to the Nth, you sure`are tetchy mate .... and as for any experience and perspective I might have accumulated over the years, it all pales into insignificance under the effect of the cynicism I have also accumulated.
We both inhabit a corrupt sport Missy (at every single level you care to mention), don't be too surprised when cynics like myself shift uneasily sometimes ... it all goes with the territory...live with it ...just like I had to.
Peace Missy, Peace !

PS And yeh you are right, it was a devil's advocacy and certainly no reason to attack !!!!!
Even in jest !!!

 

[MissyQ]

lol, so let me get this straight.

1. Joy get royally screwed in OC. Everyone is in uproar, even on p8ntballer, everyone gives Magued their 100% support and waits with baited breath and little patience for the NPPL to 'do something about it'.
2. Magued decides not to take this lying down, and harangues the NPPL with video evidence from just about every angle. There are hundreds of e-mails flying into the NPPL demanding an inquest. I'm talking a full-scale movement here...
3. The NPPL wait until the AGM in HB, and the subsequent rules comittee meeting, to discuss a course of action to take.
4. The NPPL make a statement basically admitting a mistake has been made, and (reading between the lines) that Joy did in fact win the game.
5. From this it is somehow possible to infer that WDP had an unfair/corrupt influence on the decision that was made?

Now lord knows I'm as fxxking jaded as the next guy, there is little I have not seen in the 18 years I've been in this game, but I would struggle to make that connection, and entertain it for more than a nano-second before dismissing it as some grade-A, top-drawer bollox. And if I were in the reverse position, where I actually wanted to make that shxt stick, I doubt even my best efforts and undoubted talent in propaganda management could really package it all up as a plausable theory.