Inter-Uni Tournament :):)

[JoseDominguez]

I hear a lot of stuff about 'own gunners will complain' Big deal, own gunners already play, it's not them you are trying to attract.
It's always the problem with student organised stuff....... yes, they try and get new bodies, but the mates of the organiser usualy come first.
How many players do you reckon you could round up for a tourney that costs £15 a head, plus paint (and we'll make it limited) and everyone using comparable kit?
Or, you could just do own gunnners..... that'd be great, for the twenty people you can round up.

Option 1: Full tourney with prize money
Option 2: Walk on style tester tourney. (£10 plus paint) Own guns.
Option 3........ we charge about £150 a team (5 man.. but we'll have to work this out). We set up two fields. We set up a teams worth of ions at each end. Markers are gassed and chronoed every game. Bring a squad of ten, that's £15 plus paint and you get to use an ion.... plus, no worries about chronoing or gassing up for pure novice players?
Option 4: Open day, style event...... we run a woodland competition, some one on ones, a three man airball and everyone gets to have a go at everything... make a big day of it? That way, if you have a big group, everyone can play. We'll do it as a 'pay per event' format with the three man as a centrepiece. Aim it at novice players you want to get into the sport. Say £5 to buy a ticket for the day, then separate smaller charges for each event, including paint....... e.g. £50 for a three man competition team entry, including 4 games with a full hopper?(we'll run a number of competitions, maybe even have an own gunners only etc..) Or £4 to play a woodland game (full hopper again).
Just throwing out ideas for the moment.

 

[Johnwilson]

After chatting to colin ( top gun fellow) he is able to hire out ion's with hopper and air system ( I'd assume that they can do packs and masks too being a rec-site but didn't ask)

I personally think if we can't limit players experiance, then we can't limit kit, just because we have one guy at teesside, who is doing a PhD in something computery, who has all his own kit, e-blade, hopper air system etc, can't make him use an tfx/inferno (not sure what topgun uses as a site marker guessing something along these lines)

Limited paint is the way forward, but not limited paint koth way ( nothing against koth I've played it with teesside) but bullys way limited to hopper and pot person.

I think centre flag, ( even though I personally don't like it) because this is how most seem to be played.

The first inter-uni, there was no checks on student status, reason being to try and get it off the ground. this time as I'm assuming Steve is chatting to busa. only studend union members should be allowed. ( this includes life time members, and graduates ( we have at least one))

Preference on format, 5 man for two reasons, first it is easier to get 5 peeps together and cheaper for the transport can squeeze in one car. Secondly it requires less marshalls and so makes it easier/cheaper for the top gun crew.

Prizes, Top gun will prob work on this, but don't it doesn't matter if you have no chance of winning, its all good.
Teesside University will sponsor a small prize ( to be determined prob a crate of beer) upto top gun what they want to with it, maybe most sporting team, or a booby prize.

Entry: I have two ideas for this but its upto the top gun crew
(NOTE THESE PRICES ARE MY IDEA NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH TOP GUN)
35 quid including kit and entry (across the board) with maybe a smal deposit ( 20 quid?) that is returnable if you want to borrow kit.

or a lower price of maybe 25? with no kit and peeps who hire it pay separatly ( I don't like this one, prefer the first).

There is camping on site, also if you want you can bring your caravan.

My personal two pence now:

I know steve has been approached by two other sites ( he did tell me but forgot who), I do understand travel costs and time, but top gun has a h-pac style compressor (Bauer (sp?) so air is not an issue it will do upto 4.5k,
Also Jose and colin ( may be others who I don't know) are currentyl planning this, even though it may be a long way for some uni's I only think its fair to use the topgun site.



Apologies for the long message!

I may add more if I think of it.

John


Edit: took me so long Jose posted before me

Jose could we do a combination of options two and three? cost 15 quid? yeah, own guns allowed, I personally would say that a non-ramping ion is on par with a non-ramping e-blade/shocker/angel (flame away here!)
With topgun providing ( with payment of some description) a set up of kit?

 

[Steve Hancock]

Bit of a long one I’m afraid...

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
Option 2: Walk on style tester tourney. (£10 plus paint) Own guns.

This was the sort of thing that I, personally, had in mind. On the subject of own-guns, I'd suggest that we should allow it, but hold the event at a site that has equipment available to rent out, preferably tourney level kit (such as Topguns' Ions). Ideally it would be nice to include the equipment hire in the entry fee, regardless of whether team have their own. It would mean that own gunners would be slightly subsidizing the new players, but only by a couple of quid each, and its for a good cause i.e. making the day more inviting to newer clubs/players.

Originally posted by Johnwilson
Limited paint is the way forward, but not limited paint koth way (nothing against koth I've played it with Teesside) but bully’s way limited to hopper and pot person.

5 pots instead of 3 is certainly a possibility. I only really mentioned KotH's limit as an example, although i do like the tactical element of where you allocate your 3 pots. But i haven't played it bully's way so I can't compare, could you explain the advantages to your preference? And BTW is it 1 pot per person, or 5 pots per team? I.e. do you have to distribute the pots evenly. If so, are you allowed to pass/drop pots for other players?

Originally posted by Johnwilson
The first inter-uni, there was no checks on student status, reason being to try and get it off the ground. this time as I'm assuming Steve is chatting to busa. only studend union members should be allowed. ( this includes life time members, and graduates ( we have at least one))

I haven't spoken with BUSA yet, I've been discussing this with people in the athletic union who dealt with attempts to get Korfball (similar to netball/basketball, from Holland I think) recognised, and are familiar with BUSA regulations, inc. those on recognition. Of course we don't have to stick to any of BUSA standards, but it would help to be able to show prior compliance when it comes to applying for recognition. If we were to follow BUSA rules on who is eligible to represent the uni's, it wouldn't be S.U. membership that would qualify, rather current enrolment at the institution. This would rule out the Grads mentioned. But they could always pot-bitch.

Originally posted by Johnwilson
I know steve has been approached by two other sites ( he did tell me but forgot who), I do understand travel costs and time, but top gun has a h-pac style compressor (Bauer (sp?) so air is not an issue it will do up to 4.5k,
Also Jose and Colin ( may be others who I don't know) are currently planning this, even though it may be a long way for some uni's I only think its fair to use the topgun site.

The other sites that have offered are Unreal, 2 miles from Keele Uni; and NPF Bassets Pole, just up the Road from Birmingham Warwick and Coventry Uni's.

Unreal made an offer when the thread first started, they do have two sup'air fields, which is good. Also being near to Keele Uni, with a little publicity round campus we might even be able to get some spectators down. This would have the advantage of giving the newly forming Keele club a boost in interest amongst the students there. However they don't have a compressor and so can only offer limited air via bottles, which would be a problem if we decided to allow own guns. Also, I don't know whether they have any tourney level kit available, or sufficient staff with tourney experience to ref, although we could arrange refs from elsewhere.

I approached NPF about holding an inter-uni last year, which we then arranged with them. However despite assurances from the uni's that they had teams, all apart B'ham, Teesside and (err I can't remember, Surrey I think) pulled out at the last minute. And I mean last minute! After repeated delays collecting entry-fees from their players, none had been able to get a cheque through for their entry. I'd heard "it's in the post", "just a few more days" etc, but due to not wanting to lose any teams, and as it was the Wednesday before the event, I'd conceded to allowing them to bring it along on the day. It was the Friday afternoon before the event that 3 uni's pulled out. Fortunately, even though it was last minute, NPF kindly refunded the money that Birmingham had put down to book the event. Despite letting them down last year at the last minute, they asked me last month whether I'd like to try and hold one again. I've discussed the possibility with them, and they have come back to me with a number of ideas but I didn't want to confirm anything as I wanted to speak to the other uni's before selecting a venue.

Regarding the suitability of the site. They have two netted sup'air fields, with the teams' set-up area looking out over the fields. They have a BAUER compressor up to 4.5k psi, so no problems with gas. They have a set of 24 (approx) site A4's for the teams/player that don't have their own kit. Also their are plenty of marshals there who play tourney, who would be able to ref for us.

In terms of the travel time/cost that Jon mentioned. I've been speaking to some of the uni's over the last few days, and a number mentioned the problem of travelling so far north for an event. I did wonder whether they were just whinging, but I plugged the sites' and the Universities' postcodes into the RAC route planner and looked at the travel times. On average it means an extra 2 hours travelling for the teams. In addition there is only 1 uni with under 3 hour travelling time of Topgun, meaning a lot of teams will have to camp. However half the Uni's are within 3 hours of NPF (with 3 uni's half an hour away) meaning driving there in the morning and not having to camp is a possibility for a lot more teams. While we will have to accept some travelling for what will be a national event, it would be highly preferable to minimize it where possible.

Another reason that has made having a central location more attractive, is the response to the email I had sent out to all the student unions in the country. Many S.U.'s that don't have paintball clubs have said that they would be prepared to promote the event if we provided them with details. They said that getting together a group of students interested in paintball to attend this event would be a good opportunity to get a club going at their Uni, and some even mentioned subsiding their team. This would be a wonderful development, really boosting university paintball. It would allow us to have a second division, perhaps cheaper, with mech site guns only. But more importantly it could result in many more clubs being established. In terms of travel, if the 10 existing clubs had no option but to have an extra 2 hours travelling it might not affect the turn out too badly, but I suspect the interest of potential new players might be more heavily affected than ours.

I must say, I hugely appreciate any work done to promote university paintball, but practicalities still have to be addressed. But like i said before, this is not for me to decide. I will continue speaking with the other uni's over the weekend, to get their opinion.

Like I said sorry, a bit of a long post. Possibly even a personal record.

 

[Steve Hancock]

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
...It's always the problem with student organised stuff....... yes, they try and get new bodies, but the mates of the organiser usualy come first...

Missed this first time.

If that is usually the case, its probably not so much down to deliberately setting up the event to suit themselves or even worse, rigging it; rather due to the fact that if some one is interested enough in paintball to organise an event, they are also going to put a lot of work into making there club as good as possible. This would include trying to make them better players, and as a result they will be more likely to win.

Although I'm not assuming the comment was deliberately aimed at me, applying it to this event, which I'm trying to get organised, I would like to say: Yeah, I’m hoping my boys would win it, but if that was my priority rather than the success of the event itself, I’d be pushing for unlimited, 7-man, with prize money, which isn't the case. So i hope i'm right in assuming you were not applying that comment to this event. If Birmingham win it won't be because I was involved in setting up the event.

But anyway, long day and i still have work to do, and need a beer.

Nighty-night all

 

[JoseDominguez]

Not what I was reffering to at all, I wasn't even talking about this event. What I was reffering to was the fact that university societies (all of them, from scuba to yachting) are run by people interested in the activity, therefore, they have a vested interest in getting it to run in such a way that benefits the 'inner circle'. Not a dig at anyone, just an observation, why else do you think around the time of the freshers fair most societies have hundreds of members, then six weeks later they have about a dozen

So, I was talking about the difficulty most uni societies have in getting a large number of people interested. I'd never even considered someone trying to rig an event.
Something you want to share with us?


I was a student for long enough mate, if a society doesn't revolve around clubbing, then by January, the only people you have left are the six who set it up in the first place, three 'new members' who are actually interested. An exchange student who speaks no English and came in by mistake and the terminally unpopular kid who's only there because no one else speaks to him.

So, my point, most societies are set up be people who want to get their hobby subsidised by the Uni. Not someone who wants to 'further the sport'.
Argue if you will, but how come with the thousands of students in the UK, only a fraction of Unis have managed to field a recognisable team? Yet, ask most students, they'd love to have a go at paintball. Top Gun regularly hold a freshers day for Newcastle Uni, they bring the prospective students down to sell them on coming to the area.... we get 140 across two days.

Yet they don't have a team or society. It's student apathy in general I'm commenting on, and look, only one bothers to argue
I know you Steve, I've a horrible feeling you are doing this for all of the right reasons Don't get so defensive, look around, how hard do you find it to get people interested?
'I can't come, It's the holidays'
??????

 

[Johnwilson]

Jose, happens to be correct here, Teesside got nearly 150 peeps interested in fresher week last year, got less that 30 members by jan there was 7. [still waiting for this years figures]


steve, bullys limited is each player may take one hopper ( there is a type that changes this (think it's something like a vl300 ( will check when I got 10 mins and let you know)) and a 140 ( although 150's are allowed too) shot pot, only 1 pot per player, pots may not be passed within one minute.

Another point, Teesside have a card that is used for library and entry to rooms, do other unis? as I know that an enrolement slip costs money to replace. if other unis don't have this, will we revert to the su membership? or alternatively club membership and trust each club to be honest?

 

[Steve Hancock]

Ohhhhh, now i understand. Sometimes need things spelling out for me after a long day...

You're completely right about there being a tail-off in participation throughout the year, and i expect that the activities being suited to the few rather than the many, is often a major factor. But student societies are complex beasts, and i suspect there are many other factors in play as well. A lot of freshers join loads of societies, getting involved with more than they will have time to sustain. So dropping a few is not uncommon. Another is the cliqueyness of some groups. Like one of those TV shows where if you miss an episode you'll never understand whats going on - sometimes the core of the club is inaccessable to the casual member, reducing their interest.

I've found that trying to cater to both the casual and the regular is best, in the hope that the casual take the oportunity to get more involved. But even if they can't still feel welcome.

Our weekly social in the S.U. bar is going quiet well, with 20 to 40 people coming down each week. I think that is helping people to get to know each other. I suppose that ties in to your bit about the continuity of participation in societies based around clubbing.

Anyway Year 8 class will need teaching in a moment, by all.

Oh, and:

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
I'd never even considered someone trying to rig an event.
Something you want to share with us?

Shhhh!

 

[Steve Hancock]

Just heard from another club, UWE (Uni of Western England, in Bristol i think). Brings the total of recognised active clubs up to 11. With a club starting at Keele and York in the process of re-starting, that would mean 13 clubs.

 

[unowho]

UWE has joined?!?! cool yeah they from brisl, where i come from! didnt know they did paintball, learn a new thing every day...

 

[feloneous]

Starting to get one together at Brighton, I'l keep you posted