I think you all better read this !

[Robbo]

Well that's the thing...

Originally posted by raehl
Those backyard ballers are probably the most regular. Who do you think buys all the equipment sold at walmart?
I didn't mean to imply that they were THE average, just that if you were going to pick an "average" baller, it'd be them - there's probably more paintball-days played by backyard ballers than any other group.
The spectrum with renegade players on one end and tournament ballers on the other is also a gross oversimplification - it's more one big messy ven diagram. You ever tried taking the average of a ven diagram?!?!?!
- Chris

Most regular ????????????
Oh come on !!!!!!!!!!
Look at the top pros for being the 'most' regular.
Just because these backyard ballers buy their equipment from Walmart or wherever doesn't constitute them as 'most' anything let alone regular.
Nah, I will contend that description !!!!
I will concede that these ballers who you refer to, who play with no formal safety procedures or personel may well be classed as the most stupid, but that's all.

And as for my, what you call, my oversimplification, I will tell you paintall is exactly that with the main body of paintballers between those extremes.

And as for averaging out on a Ven diagram, who says you have to use that type representation, use basic stats and all falls into place.
It's just that you and I would differ on the numbers and signifcance attributed to each class.

Robbo

 

[Bigdog]

Originally posted by Micah
1,942?

Only of its a Friday & raining.

What does this have to do with the new leagues?
Is there going to be a millennium series next year?

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by upsupball
robbo, are you constantly connected to the forum, you seem to be on it all the time. it is 5.30 in the morning and you are putting in a message already. only students getting in late, or yanks would be up at this silly hour

USUP, for some reason, I can't sleep much past 5 am some days, it sucks, so rather than just lay there looking at my reflection in the ceiling mirror (which of course, is always a wonderful experience) I make my way downstairs and come on line

Robbo

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Robbo
I make my way downstairs and come on line

Robbo

When my wife and kids are in bed I tend to come on line...(couldn't resist that one). Quality time, you know.

 

[Buddha 3]

Obviously I can't speak for the avarage American, but I'm a position where I get to interact with paintballers of every kind there is. The renegade ballers are a small, but dedicated group. They play almost every weekend (yet still insist on buying paint in small quantities), but there are very few of them. Which given their nature is not surprising.
The recboys are, as we all know, the vast majority. I know a lot of these guys suffer from supairophobia. For whatever reason they do not want to play Sup. Perhaps as a one off, for the novelty value, but mostly it's "I'll be fine in the forests" type thing.
Yet when the Millennium circus hit Amsterdam, I ran into a lot of the local 'kill all tourneyplayers and anything that reeks of Sup'Air' players. They were all mightily impressed with what they saw, and that generated a spark of interest.
Many of them still prefer to stick around the woods, but they do have a lot of curiosity towards the 'big names'.
So over here it's pretty safe to say that even though a lot of players have no aspirations to go tourney, they love reading about them. Why? Not sure, but it could have something to do with individualism. These guys love paintball just as much as we do, but they cannot or don't want to make the commitment to a team. Because as soon as you are part of a team, you have certain responsibilities, and not everybody is able or willing to except those.

 

[Wadidiz]

Are there any quality, scientific surveys of paintball playing and how it breaks down into tourney, rec and one-time players? I kinda doubt it. I think most of what we see here is and will be very subjective.

I have been involved in Swedish paintball for about 7 years. First the usual evolution from rental customer to rec (just a few weeks) and then to tourney and competitive practice. I ran an indoor park for almost a year and imported and sold paintballs and equipment, on a wholesale basis.

I was involved in America for about for about 4 years. I worked in a successful paintball shop with a huge affilliated park for about 2 years and I played on teams the whole time, first in the MSPA series and then in NPPL.

I can say from my experience that most players in Sweden and in Atlanta followed roughly the same evolutionary path: rental customer a few times, then--if interested--buy equipment to play rec ball for a while, then--if it bites you--play tournaments. For most players I know, the first stage lasts about 5 minutes. The second about 15.

Everyone I know, who got the bug and went to stage 2, bought the big magazines and quickly learned who the big names were. For me it was quickly Bob Long, Fred Schulz, Dave Youngblood, Phil Ham and Robbo. Imagine the thrill for me when I was later part of a team that maxed the Ironmen at 10-player with both Bobby and Dave!

I also think it's typical that once a player goes to tourney play that he/she never goes back to rec. It is just no fun to pick off newbies (one little, two little, three little indians, four little...). It is empty calories.

Then, it must be seen, that the playing of paintball is very fluid. Tons of people try it, buy into it, burn out and then sell out. Look at tourney players who leave, come back, retire come back (not to step on any toes out there).

Conclusion: what happens at the top of our sport is interesting for almost all who buy equipment IMO and from my experience. If it's not, why even participate on a forum like this?

Steve

 

[Robbo]

Steve, as I said in an earlier post, I think our ole mate Chris has a distorted take on things and I'm glad to see my opinion is backed up by somebody who has extensive knowledge at the front end of the US market rather than from a college dorm
No disrespect intended Chris !!
As for a scientific survey ?
Well, I dunno about that but a survey by both Brass Eagle and the Sporting Goods Retail Assocaition was undertaken and we (PGI) have soem of the information from the latter.
It makes interesting reading !!!


Pete

 

[TJ Lambini]

Gotta disagree there boys

I suspect Raehl's right, but some of the inferences made from this are wrong.

I view pball as being very like mountain biking; the racing/tournament end drives the gear development, and as such has an impact on all players at every level, but I think the number of people actually interested in the NPPL - and tournament ball generally - as a percentage is small, which is mirrored in the number of mountain bikers who are interested in the national series, olympics etc. and who compete themselves. Many bikers will spend a lot of money on top-end kit and many hours a week in the saddle, but never compete - and a lot of ballers are similar, in that they will not enter tournaments but spend weekends doing walk-ons with their buddies.

However, I'd still put the 'interested' figure at maybe 100k people in North America, so it is in no way insignificant.

And also, whether you're aware of the NPPL or not, the magazines and websites generate an awareness, whether it's through using/interviewing key players for tactical and technical articles which are applicable to all players at all levels, or through presonality-based adverts a la Evil arrives. You may not care about the Pro Leagues, but utilize any Paintball media and you will be exposed to them, so you'll know of their existence. whether you care or not is another matter...

Another view is that pball is like skiing for a lot of people - they'll have some basic equipment and utilize it several times a year, but they would in no way describe themselves as skiiers...a lot of people will treat Paintball in the same way: it's another fun thing to do a few times a year but they're as likely to enter a tourney as a 4-time a year skiier is to enter a race.

 

[Robbo]

Gotta disagree there boys

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
I suspect Raehl's right, but some of the inferences made from this are wrong.

I view pball as being very like mountain biking; the racing/tournament end drives the gear development, and as such has an impact on all players at every level, but I think the number of people actually interested in the NPPL - and tournament ball generally - as a percentage is small, which is mirrored in the number of mountain bikers who are interested in the national series, olympics etc. and who compete themselves. Many bikers will spend a lot of money on top-end kit and many hours a week in the saddle, but never compete - and a lot of ballers are similar, in that they will not enter tournaments but spend weekends doing walk-ons with their buddies.

However, I'd still put the 'interested' figure at maybe 100k people in North America, so it is in no way insignificant.

And also, whether you're aware of the NPPL or not, the magazines and websites generate an awareness, whether it's through using/interviewing key players for tactical and technical articles which are applicable to all players at all levels, or through presonality-based adverts a la Evil arrives. You may not care about the Pro Leagues, but utilize any Paintball media and you will be exposed to them, so you'll know of their existence. whether you care or not is another matter...

Another view is that pball is like skiing for a lot of people - they'll have some basic equipment and utilize it several times a year, but they would in no way describe themselves as skiiers...a lot of people will treat Paintball in the same way: it's another fun thing to do a few times a year but they're as likely to enter a tourney as a 4-time a year skiier is to enter a race.

And this is precisley why I made that earlier distinction betwen players and occasionals and suggested that players are interested in what goes on !
Pete

 

[Beaker]

I'm probably with TJ on this.

Case in point me and snowboarding. I have boarded for a few years and have all the kit. But I do it as a hobby and while I buy the mags and the videos and look at all the great tricks and lines they ride - I really don't care about who won what event, who the champions are etc. I know a few names but not many, nor do I care that I don't know them all.

In the paintball sense I'm a rec player - perfectly valid but never trying to hit the top end of the sport.

And on my travels next year I am following the winter so I can board wherever I go, so I will be taking it serioulsy hopefully culminating in some major Freeriding in Alaska.

If you take snowboarding to be like paintball then yeah - the average snowboarder is like me at the moment, has the kit, goes for their 2 weeks a year, don't really care who the top flight is.

But there are those that do do seasons and travel the word to board Alaska/Mt Baker etc etc. It's those that are interested in the top flight and follow who does what - exactly like (major) tournament players do in pball.