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hypocrisy in PB media?!

SteveD

Getting Up Again
Funny; as I write this, the Advantage chip ad is running at the top of the screen.

There's three issues going on here and its important to separate them out and discuss each one (or not, since dead horses begin to smell BAD after a while):

there's the issue of the paintball media's influence and its place in setting/maintaining/encouraging/whatever the moral or ethical tone of the industry.

Media influences the morality if for no other reason than its the 'medium' through which we all receive outside input about what's going on everywhere but in our own heads. We find out how other people think, gain a perspective against which to gage our own thoughts and feelings, blah blah blah.

The paintball media does, in my opinion, have the responsibility of being the moral 'watchdog' for the industry - not because it chooses to take on that role, but simply as an outgrowth of what it is. The media will be a primary influence whether it wants to be or not, so it has a responsibility to treat that influence professionally and seriously.

Then there's the issue of 'cheating' products. As several others have said, almost any piece of equipment can be subverted. That doesn't mean that they should be subverted and, in my opinion, it DOES mean that the manufacturer should provide users (by this I mean events, referees, rules-making orgs) with as much information as possible to assist in detecting and preventing that subversion - that's the manufacturer's moral responsibility.

I personally have two problems with the 'cheater' boards; one is the fact that the product, in most cases, is designed to be undetectable. This goes strictly against what I view as a manufacturers responsibility.

The second is in their advertising, where the primary focus of the ad is the cheating features of their product. I recognize it as the hype that it is (even if backed by performance), just as some companies push the sex envelope, others the bling envelope and still others the 'use this and play as good as me' envelope. Sometimes you go over the edge in advertising and again, from a personal perspective, these kinds of ads are over the line.

Finally, there is the issue of the acceptance of cheating as a part of the paintball culture.

Does it happen? Yes. Does it give teams an edge? Yes. Is it impossible to detect in some cases? Yes.

Does that mean we throw in the towel and let everything go? No. The emphasis ought to be on working with everyone to reduce it as much as possible. The encouragement ought to go to those who don't. The praise ought to be for those who stay within the rules.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We've now broken through to the abdominal cavity of that dead horse with our incessent beating and man, it stinks!

In summation: was 68 caliber right in refusing to take the ad? Yes, because they set the moral tone for their media outlet, they studied the issue, came to a decision, stuck to that decision and have produced a public argument that backs that decision; they have chosen to accept the responsibility that is thrust upon the media and to lead by example.

Was PGI right to take the ad? Yes, for exactly the same reasons as above; they thought about it. They recognized that in this case, the ad was saying more than just advertising yet another paintball product.

But regardless, we're debating the wrong issue. We should be looking for ways to create an environment in which such a product would never even come to market, much less be advertised. Someone who builds a product solely for cheating (and I hereby reject the argument that since the board is useful in other types of play its legitimate - we all know that its sole purpose in being developed was to allow gun cheats, pure and simple) ought to be reviled and run out of the industry. (The correction lies in physically identifying the board, but the proof of its cheating nature lies in the fact that if it were identified, there would be no demand for it.) Are there other non-chip products just like this one? Yes. ALL of them ought to be gone.
 

Matski

SO hot right now
Aug 8, 2001
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Originally posted by stongle

Same applies here. If Advantage PB want to put on the Joe Bob Boonie Woodland Ramping Challenge, and allow Enhanced ROFs then they are within their rights to do so (I've not heard them to be against Statute law in the US). Fair enough some tournaments seek to ban them, that is their right, but not everyone chooses to play those events, so why do you all seek to eliminate player choice?
Exactly

Le-Pig.... publicity is rarely bad, after the storm blows over, in the longterm it always means more interest, more players, more money, cheaper stuff for you....get down from your horse buddy, careful not to fall its a bit high..
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
matski,

if they printed 'advantange board' on the chip, you'd be absolutely right, but they themselves are denying the other events the opportunity to make their own decisions about what they will allow and won't allow by hiding the nature of their product.
 

stongle

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Aug 23, 2002
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Originally posted by SteveD
matski,

if they printed 'advantange board' on the chip, you'd be absolutely right, but they themselves are denying the other events the opportunity to make their own decisions about what they will allow and won't allow by hiding the nature of their product.
And with a combination of the 2 posts, we have a winner!
 

Matski

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Aug 8, 2001
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I think the only solution would be an industry wide agreement to put some kinda brittle holographic sticker on the chips of stock boards (like the ones on credit cards with the changing image) that verifys the board to be standard. But now were talking costs....thank god players pay the bills:rolleyes:
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Originally posted by SteveD
..there's the issue of the paintball media's influence and its place in setting/maintaining/encouraging/whatever the moral or ethical tone of the industry.

Media influences the morality if for no other reason than its the 'medium' through which we all receive outside input about what's going on everywhere but in our own heads. We find out how other people think, gain a perspective against which to gage our own thoughts and feelings, blah blah blah.

The paintball media does, in my opinion, have the responsibility of being the moral 'watchdog' for the industry - not because it chooses to take on that role, but simply as an outgrowth of what it is. The media will be a primary influence whether it wants to be or not, so it has a responsibility to treat that influence professionally and seriously.

In summation: was 68 caliber right in refusing to take the ad? Yes, because they set the moral tone for their media outlet, they studied the issue, came to a decision, stuck to that decision and have produced a public argument that backs that decision; they have chosen to accept the responsibility that is thrust upon the media and to lead by example.

Was PGI right to take the ad? Yes, for exactly the same reasons as above; they thought about it. They recognized that in this case, the ad was saying more than just advertising yet another paintball product.
Something drew Mr. D outta the woodwork. Howdy, Mr. D.

Coupl'a things off the top. The specific ad relevant here isn't in PGI--it's on P8ntballer. It may seem a small distinction but I don't think it is. More in a second.
The Media element is more to the original point I was interested in. Thanks for addressing it, Mr. D.
While I don't disagree with the sentiment I think it's not nearly that simple. Plainly, Media sets a "tone" regardless of their intention. That's a given and it is a fair consideration to examine just what that tone is and what it's likely impact might be.
And Media clearly has an informational component. A large part of the interest of the readership is being kept up to date and informed on what's going on in the wide world of PB as well as the how-to aspect.
And I'll certainly agree with the watchdog idea but this is another aspect of informing the PB public.
The problem, in my mind, arises with the assumption of a moral component, at least as it's generally accepted. I find it more constructive to think of the items we agree on as legitimate obligations of Media. And open to widely divergent views on the "right" way to address them.
For example, while the Advantage board is an easy target there are lots of other potential targets of "moral" outrage where the line isn't so easy to draw. In the context of the ad here on P8ntballer--in combination with this site's willingness to open debate on the subject--you have, as a result, both an informed PB public and an opportunity to publicly address the issues and concerns surrounding this particular product and issue generally. This doesn't require P8ntballer to "take a stand" yet provides a valuable service.
The second concern I have is about projecting morality as policy. Personally I have pretty plain views on lots of things and don't hesitate to express my opinion here at P8ntballer. When I do variations of the same in the mag that is editorial content. PGI has a fair amount of cross-over into editorial content and the value isn't that the mag projects a united this is how the PB universe ought to be constructed view but that it offers a diversity of opinions and ideas that hopefully inspire some thoughtful consideration. Seems to me Media's first obligation is to promote the free and open exchange of ideas. Anything less, whatever the motivation--"for your own good"--while commonplace is worse than any perceived failure--like accepting evil advertising, than might otherwise occur.
 
D

duffistuta

Guest
Originally posted by Baca Loco


The second concern I have is about projecting morality as policy. Personally I have pretty plain views on lots of things and don't hesitate to express my opinion here at P8ntballer. When I do variations of the same in the mag that is editorial content. PGI has a fair amount of cross-over into editorial content and the value isn't that the mag projects a united this is how the PB universe ought to be constructed view but that it offers a diversity of opinions and ideas that hopefully inspire some thoughtful consideration. Seems to me Media's first obligation is to promote the free and open exchange of ideas. Anything less, whatever the motivation--"for your own good"--while commonplace is worse than any perceived failure--like accepting evil advertising, than might otherwise occur.
We have a winner. Someone give that cow a pasture...

;)

Is it about this time you bring out the 'Hypocrisy' view that's waiting in the wings?
 

sie2050

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garycarrot
The simplest sport is running, just a pair of trainers needed, but look what happens when you can take steriods, your performance gets better. Is it "fair" and "legal"...NO. but it is a fact of life.

Name me a sport where "cheating" does not take place.

What you need is a penalty for cheating, that makes it not worth the chance. And the means to detect the gun cheats.
snooker you cant cheat in that