How to preserve Paintball in the UK?
- Thread starter Baca Loco
- Start date
in 5 years time, Pball will still be exactly where it is now. stuck in the sacarin limelight, just waiting to be discovered by the huge media moghuls........
Paintball will never be mainstream - not until the prices are reflected so that Joe Schmoe can aford to play on a regular basis - and by that I exclude the few hardcore frothers that throw thier lives at it now, i mean the man on the clapham omnibus.
people just aint intrested in painball, unless your into paintball, and the sheer cost of playing tournies prohibits any kind of frequency or repetition of intrest/ involvement to capture the imagination of the general public to GET into paintball.
Ergo - it will remain in the fringe, remain a small community, until we embrace the american way, and allow the next generation to aford to play, and earn thier right in the limelight.
either that go back to the woods and forget all about it!
Paintball will never be mainstream - not until the prices are reflected so that Joe Schmoe can aford to play on a regular basis - and by that I exclude the few hardcore frothers that throw thier lives at it now, i mean the man on the clapham omnibus.
people just aint intrested in painball, unless your into paintball, and the sheer cost of playing tournies prohibits any kind of frequency or repetition of intrest/ involvement to capture the imagination of the general public to GET into paintball.
Ergo - it will remain in the fringe, remain a small community, until we embrace the american way, and allow the next generation to aford to play, and earn thier right in the limelight.
either that go back to the woods and forget all about it!
Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that, having read the green paper carefully it states that a thing is a replica if joe schmoe (read as unqualified person off the street) thinks it is, that means that manufacture/sale/import of certain types of paintball marker would come under the ban (Tippman A5 as a start). That is the pain of the bill, it was worded to screw around with as much as they could get, our government want to stop "springer Kiddies" and please the vociferous GCN (Fun Control Network) who want everything gun shaped (they don't care if it is actually capable of causing serious injury or not) banned. they have no grey area to work with. The other big enemy MAG (Mothers against guns) are not quite so draconian in what they want (but not far off) they have accepted that some sports using guns are safe.
Looking at the wording of the bill it isn't us (the players) who will suffer (initially) but the retailers (Eclipse, LPS and the others) and the UK manufacturers.
I spoke to an old friend from the HO who thinks that at the present rate all guns (whatever use) will be banned in the UK by 2010.
Do the UKPSF have any comment on this?
Looking at the wording of the bill it isn't us (the players) who will suffer (initially) but the retailers (Eclipse, LPS and the others) and the UK manufacturers.
I spoke to an old friend from the HO who thinks that at the present rate all guns (whatever use) will be banned in the UK by 2010.
Do the UKPSF have any comment on this?
It's Time To Stop Bloody Talking About It And Do It....
It’s been a while since I tapped out a message on this board but this topic is one that really needs to be sorted out. For the sport to really progress and for the sport to have the longevity it needs to become main stream it actually has to have recognition as a sport in its own right… nothing new there, people have been talking about it for years and it just then fades away into a distant muttering that everybody knows needs to happen but then know body does anything about, this isn’t something that can be done by just one person and here in lies the problem…
Now educating the public and local governments is all very well but to its end a bit bloody pointless, the recognition needs to come from the major sporting bodies such as the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport), the Olympic Committee, Commonwealth Games Authority, American Sports Federation etc, etc..
This is something I have spent a great deal of time on over the last four years with running an Australian Sports Fed for Paintball and looking into just this scenario, now believe it or not most and I do mean most of these organizations have no problem with paintball being a sport, how it works, is basically for any sport to be officially called “A Sport” is has to reach certain criteria, i.e. length of time since its conception, certain amount of countries that participate, the international mix, amount of players participating, drug screening criteria (much easier to organize than you think). Etc, etc, paintball actually reaches ALL OF THE SPECIFIED CRITERIA to be recognized as a sport from the majority of these organizations, BAR ONE…
All I said paintball meets all of the criteria (generally) other than one…. All the organizations mentioned require that the sport already has setup an International Sporting Association with rules and regulations governing the sport, the organization must be Not for Profit, have at least eight different countries involved and have a legally recognized format, i.e. certain amount of board members that are voted in & out by the members of the organization, Insurances, Drug policies, Annual General Meetings etc, etc… That’s It! That’s all we need, once paintball is so recognized then it opens the door for government grants to be accessed to set up playing facilities, Tournaments, training centers… I **** you NOT!...
So where’s the problem? setting up such an organization is relatively easy, a large amount of paperwork and a lot of hard work but relatively easy never the less… So again where’s the problem?.... MONEY!
An organization of this size requires full time staff, equipment, members and lots of them and I don’t mean members paying 5 Quid a year and getting a membership card to say they have joined, it means members joining the organization paying a real subscription fee, approximately 150 pounds a year, it then needs the sports businesses to get behind the organization and join as corporate members at approximately 800 pounds a year, it needs the Tournament promoters to get behind it making it mandatory for only paying members to play there tournaments…. SEE where we are losing a bit of interest now…!
I have been trying to set up such an organization for the last three years out of hundreds of letters, brochures and emails I have sent I have to key members of the paintball industry I have probably ten replies… whoppy ****!... does this stop us doing it, hell no build it and they shall come… well maybe… we can set up in each country with any members and anybody being the country representatives but lets be honest we need the big names of the sporting industry to help carry this forward in each country, why are the majority not interested you tell me?
Is it that there is no short term financial gain?,
Is it that they don’t believe the sport needs to recognized in its own right?
Is it because they believe that by doing this they will some how slice their profit cake into too many slices…?
Is it because they believe the average paintballer won’t get behind the idea and pay the membership fees and therefore they would be wasting their time…?
Or am I just Wrong… Maybe its not what we need…
I’d love to discuss this idea with anyone, especially those Big Boys of our sport, or am I wrong, do we not need to be recognized as a sport, balls to it lets reinvent the wheel, why follow a pattern that has help develop nearly every other sport in the world…
Your thoughts?
It’s been a while since I tapped out a message on this board but this topic is one that really needs to be sorted out. For the sport to really progress and for the sport to have the longevity it needs to become main stream it actually has to have recognition as a sport in its own right… nothing new there, people have been talking about it for years and it just then fades away into a distant muttering that everybody knows needs to happen but then know body does anything about, this isn’t something that can be done by just one person and here in lies the problem…
Now educating the public and local governments is all very well but to its end a bit bloody pointless, the recognition needs to come from the major sporting bodies such as the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport), the Olympic Committee, Commonwealth Games Authority, American Sports Federation etc, etc..
This is something I have spent a great deal of time on over the last four years with running an Australian Sports Fed for Paintball and looking into just this scenario, now believe it or not most and I do mean most of these organizations have no problem with paintball being a sport, how it works, is basically for any sport to be officially called “A Sport” is has to reach certain criteria, i.e. length of time since its conception, certain amount of countries that participate, the international mix, amount of players participating, drug screening criteria (much easier to organize than you think). Etc, etc, paintball actually reaches ALL OF THE SPECIFIED CRITERIA to be recognized as a sport from the majority of these organizations, BAR ONE…
All I said paintball meets all of the criteria (generally) other than one…. All the organizations mentioned require that the sport already has setup an International Sporting Association with rules and regulations governing the sport, the organization must be Not for Profit, have at least eight different countries involved and have a legally recognized format, i.e. certain amount of board members that are voted in & out by the members of the organization, Insurances, Drug policies, Annual General Meetings etc, etc… That’s It! That’s all we need, once paintball is so recognized then it opens the door for government grants to be accessed to set up playing facilities, Tournaments, training centers… I **** you NOT!...
So where’s the problem? setting up such an organization is relatively easy, a large amount of paperwork and a lot of hard work but relatively easy never the less… So again where’s the problem?.... MONEY!
An organization of this size requires full time staff, equipment, members and lots of them and I don’t mean members paying 5 Quid a year and getting a membership card to say they have joined, it means members joining the organization paying a real subscription fee, approximately 150 pounds a year, it then needs the sports businesses to get behind the organization and join as corporate members at approximately 800 pounds a year, it needs the Tournament promoters to get behind it making it mandatory for only paying members to play there tournaments…. SEE where we are losing a bit of interest now…!
I have been trying to set up such an organization for the last three years out of hundreds of letters, brochures and emails I have sent I have to key members of the paintball industry I have probably ten replies… whoppy ****!... does this stop us doing it, hell no build it and they shall come… well maybe… we can set up in each country with any members and anybody being the country representatives but lets be honest we need the big names of the sporting industry to help carry this forward in each country, why are the majority not interested you tell me?
Is it that there is no short term financial gain?,
Is it that they don’t believe the sport needs to recognized in its own right?
Is it because they believe that by doing this they will some how slice their profit cake into too many slices…?
Is it because they believe the average paintballer won’t get behind the idea and pay the membership fees and therefore they would be wasting their time…?
Or am I just Wrong… Maybe its not what we need…
I’d love to discuss this idea with anyone, especially those Big Boys of our sport, or am I wrong, do we not need to be recognized as a sport, balls to it lets reinvent the wheel, why follow a pattern that has help develop nearly every other sport in the world…
Your thoughts?
so just sale manufacture and import is banned, if it happens (i hope to God it wont, an I know a lot of people are working very hard to stop it) will the markers we own be taken away? or will we just be prevented from buying more?
the markers will not be illegal (yet) and there are no immediate plans to stop import of parts (only complete markers) however if we look at the track record of our government we see a steady process of removing these from public ownership.
Firearms laws in the UK have been effectivly in force since 1906 when the first acts were passed preventing ownership of certain classes of weapon.This was done for the STATED purpose of "Preventing armed issurection among the populace" as the government of the time realised that we simply had more armed civillians than we did soldiers and police officers.
Things were changed and tweaked until 1965 when owners of C02 powered guns were required to register their weapons on what amounted to a "dog" licence.3 years later the SAME guns were raised to the status of "Section 1 firearms" and the nice list in the hands of the authorities meant that they didn't have much to do to find out who all the owners were.
1968 came and went along with a HUGE update to the now imfamous acts taking away full auto weapons and certain classes of specially dangerous weapons by changing their class.
1988 arrived and the incident at hungerford took place.In the original green paper that was proposed at the time handguns were slated to be banned as Ryan killed more with his 92F than he did with the M1 carbine and AK put together.After some kicking round the government decided it was less likely to get through if handguns were included and removed that from the white paper of the time.
The ban came and went with owners such as myself getting the market value of the gun paid out in compensation for our losses.A little clearification was added making burst fire weapons illegal (so removing the last of the full auto weapons missed in 68)
1995 arrived and one of the most terrible events of the last century happened...Thomas Hamilton gunned down the weakest members of our society at Dumblane using a LEGAL handgun.The less human members of our government realised some votes could be scored and set about banning hand guns (at the initial stages .22 rimfire was set to be permitted but they were also included in later acts).Owners of high value handguns were offered a pittance in compensation and like others I decided to book some guns into a higher class and exported others off shore for use overseas.
On the horizon the government saw the growing outcry about errosion of our rights and sport and decided to knock C02 guns off ticket as a peace offering and lever to get the gun ban through "Why do you need that 50 cal DE when your only shooting at paper,you can use one of these real looking C02 guns instead and still enjoy your hobby,but more safely"?
Along came the Anti Social Behaviour Act under everybodies radar sneaking in a class change to the brocock system meaning they were being changed in class from airguns to limited section 5 weapons.The government didn't have the money or resources to go chasing up every gun in the UK so simply said "Thou shalt apply for a licence to keep your guns" meaning all owners who weren't scumbags had to go out and get all the security a normal section 1 weapon required just to keep their LEGALLY purchased property.
Now we have this violent crime bill on it's way..
Currently the sale of COMPLETE guns is a target and is LIKELY to be banned so making life pretty bad for the small number of retailers who rely on the business and a tiny number of others who make the odd sale on forums etc.So why is all the above a problem??
There are retailers in the UK who have their houses...their HOMES! tied up in their business (No I'm not one of them) and they have worked hard to build up a decent business over some number of years.As the bill reads SOME of these people could go under by not being able to sell complete guns.Why should you care you ask??
it doesn't affect me.....OR DOES IT?
Say a few retailers go the same way? who do I buy my spares from that I cannot make? simple I either import them (hello customs) or give up trying to fix my marker and take up another hobby.
Well maybe I should just go out and stock up before it all comes in??
Great but even with the best will in the world the part that breaks is going to be the ONE part I didn't get a spare of @@!!@@ .
Ahh well so we lose the retailers and have to rely on self made or imports??
Look back over the above post and see the trend in UK gun laws...slowly,slowly each and EVERY class of item gun shaped is being removed from private ownership and when this ban makes little or NO difference to crime figures the government will need to do something else.Those imports your relying on to keep your pride and joy going is now in danger...would it not have been a better idea to fight for your rights when you had the chance and the retailers support? when there were more people around to fight you may have stood a chance..now..well your left with a broken gun and no real reason to keep it...best just throw it away...EXACTLY how our nanny government want things to go!! divide and conquor
Firearms laws in the UK have been effectivly in force since 1906 when the first acts were passed preventing ownership of certain classes of weapon.This was done for the STATED purpose of "Preventing armed issurection among the populace" as the government of the time realised that we simply had more armed civillians than we did soldiers and police officers.
Things were changed and tweaked until 1965 when owners of C02 powered guns were required to register their weapons on what amounted to a "dog" licence.3 years later the SAME guns were raised to the status of "Section 1 firearms" and the nice list in the hands of the authorities meant that they didn't have much to do to find out who all the owners were.
1968 came and went along with a HUGE update to the now imfamous acts taking away full auto weapons and certain classes of specially dangerous weapons by changing their class.
1988 arrived and the incident at hungerford took place.In the original green paper that was proposed at the time handguns were slated to be banned as Ryan killed more with his 92F than he did with the M1 carbine and AK put together.After some kicking round the government decided it was less likely to get through if handguns were included and removed that from the white paper of the time.
The ban came and went with owners such as myself getting the market value of the gun paid out in compensation for our losses.A little clearification was added making burst fire weapons illegal (so removing the last of the full auto weapons missed in 68)
1995 arrived and one of the most terrible events of the last century happened...Thomas Hamilton gunned down the weakest members of our society at Dumblane using a LEGAL handgun.The less human members of our government realised some votes could be scored and set about banning hand guns (at the initial stages .22 rimfire was set to be permitted but they were also included in later acts).Owners of high value handguns were offered a pittance in compensation and like others I decided to book some guns into a higher class and exported others off shore for use overseas.
On the horizon the government saw the growing outcry about errosion of our rights and sport and decided to knock C02 guns off ticket as a peace offering and lever to get the gun ban through "Why do you need that 50 cal DE when your only shooting at paper,you can use one of these real looking C02 guns instead and still enjoy your hobby,but more safely"?
Along came the Anti Social Behaviour Act under everybodies radar sneaking in a class change to the brocock system meaning they were being changed in class from airguns to limited section 5 weapons.The government didn't have the money or resources to go chasing up every gun in the UK so simply said "Thou shalt apply for a licence to keep your guns" meaning all owners who weren't scumbags had to go out and get all the security a normal section 1 weapon required just to keep their LEGALLY purchased property.
Now we have this violent crime bill on it's way..
Currently the sale of COMPLETE guns is a target and is LIKELY to be banned so making life pretty bad for the small number of retailers who rely on the business and a tiny number of others who make the odd sale on forums etc.So why is all the above a problem??
There are retailers in the UK who have their houses...their HOMES! tied up in their business (No I'm not one of them) and they have worked hard to build up a decent business over some number of years.As the bill reads SOME of these people could go under by not being able to sell complete guns.Why should you care you ask??
it doesn't affect me.....OR DOES IT?
Say a few retailers go the same way? who do I buy my spares from that I cannot make? simple I either import them (hello customs) or give up trying to fix my marker and take up another hobby.
Well maybe I should just go out and stock up before it all comes in??
Great but even with the best will in the world the part that breaks is going to be the ONE part I didn't get a spare of @@!!@@ .
Ahh well so we lose the retailers and have to rely on self made or imports??
Look back over the above post and see the trend in UK gun laws...slowly,slowly each and EVERY class of item gun shaped is being removed from private ownership and when this ban makes little or NO difference to crime figures the government will need to do something else.Those imports your relying on to keep your pride and joy going is now in danger...would it not have been a better idea to fight for your rights when you had the chance and the retailers support? when there were more people around to fight you may have stood a chance..now..well your left with a broken gun and no real reason to keep it...best just throw it away...EXACTLY how our nanny government want things to go!! divide and conquor
"We have accepted that a total ban on the possession of imitation firearms is impractical for a variety of reasons, which is why we propose to double the penalty for possessing an imitation firearm in a public place without reasonable excuse."
Well thats not so awful, but its not good at all for manufacturers/shops and therefore for paintball in general
"I will listen to such representations, but those representations would have to make a very powerful case for a certain exemption"
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050620/debtext/50620-15.htm
Well thats not so awful, but its not good at all for manufacturers/shops and therefore for paintball in general
"I will listen to such representations, but those representations would have to make a very powerful case for a certain exemption"
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050620/debtext/50620-15.htm
preservation techniques to try:
a) pickling
b) salting
c) pasteurisation
d) embalming
general apathy makes this all pie in the sky.
a) pickling
b) salting
c) pasteurisation
d) embalming
general apathy makes this all pie in the sky.