Hotel shelling in Iraq

[sjt19]

Civilian casulties are nothing compared with the number of people that Saddam's regime has massacred over the last god knows how many years.

The Iraqi soldiers fighting in civilian clothes are responsible for the deaths of civilians from American bullets, and bombs. I am positive that the Coalition forces DO NOT intentionally bomb the civilians, but mistakes sadly do tend to happen.

Re the journalists in the hotel that died, it was their choice to be there in the first place, nobody but their editors and organisations can be blamed for their deaths. Would you sit on the halfway line of a football field to report on the game?? They would have been far safer, and been able to do their jobs equally as well if they had been a touch further away from the center of the bombing. Whilst it is a sad occurance, it smacks of stupidity on behalf of the journalists themselves.

The only way to remove Saddam is to implement the kind of war strategy that the Coalition have implemented, nobody said it was going to be easy, and civilian casulties are always kept to a minimum, but will always occur.

I am in support of the war, and hope that it ends soon, with the right result.

Sam

 

[Bex]

The journalists that were staying in the hotel that was shelled were staying there on the grounds that they knew they were in danger. But they were also enjoying great luxuries.
Personally i'd have rather have been in some grotty place.
The civilian casualties are being kept down but it can never be kept down enough so condolances to all the families.

 

[duffistuta]

Civilian casulties are nothing compared with the number of people that Saddam's regime has massacred over the last god knows how many years.

>>>True. They are also nothing compared to the 1,000,000+ which have died through the implementation of sanctions - which have only served to strengthen Saddam's regime - over the past 12 years.

The Iraqi soldiers fighting in civilian clothes are responsible for the deaths of civilians from American bullets, and bombs. I am positive that the Coalition forces DO NOT intentionally bomb the civilians, but mistakes sadly do tend to happen.

>>>I agree, I just think it's a shame we tried to scurry around and claim that it was the regime bombing itself...made the Allies look foolish IMHO.

Re the journalists in the hotel that died, it was their choice to be there in the first place, nobody but their editors and organisations can be blamed for their deaths. Would you sit on the halfway line of a football field to report on the game?? They would have been far safer, and been able to do their jobs equally as well if they had been a touch further away from the center of the bombing. Whilst it is a sad occurance, it smacks of stupidity on behalf of the journalists themselves.

>>>That's really, really harsh...journalists, like soldiers, sometimes have to put themselves at risk to do their jobs properly, and they deserve every bit as much respect as the soldiers.

The only way to remove Saddam is to implement the kind of war strategy that the Coalition have implemented, nobody said it was going to be easy, and civilian casulties are always kept to a minimum, but will always occur.

>>>We'll have to agree to differ there...

I am in support of the war, and hope that it ends soon, with the right result.

>>>Me2

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by duffistuta
That's really, really harsh...journalists, like soldiers, sometimes have to put themselves at risk to do their jobs properly, and they deserve every bit as much respect as the soldiers.

I totally agree with you there duffy, many journalists are incredibly brave in their desperation to out do their fellow reporters. And yes in this respect they are very similar to soldiers, but then if they intentionally place themselves so close to the center of the bombing campaign, (the hotel was right in the center of the Baghdad (sp?) city center) they are leaving themselves open to unnessessary risks. They could have stayed on the outskirts of the city and drove in with the army units like other reporters did. Why was it so important for them to stay in the city center??? They took a gamble on their safety, and lost. Whilst this is incredibly sad, also in the sense that people will risk their lives just to outsell a fellow newspaper (because thats what it all comes down to), they knew the risks, and decided to take their chances.

My condolences go out to their respective families, who also must be wondering if the search for the most dangerous news story was worth their loss of life and losing the families they left behind.

In hindsight maybe it wasnt.

 

[duffistuta]

The journos in Baghdad had to go where the Iraqis told them to, they had no choice in the matter if they wanted to tell the story of the conflict from inside the capital; the risk for all of them was, and still is, huge.

>>>I totally agree with you there duffy, many journalists are incredibly brave in their desperation to out do their fellow reporters....My condolences go out to their respective families, who also must be wondering if the search for the most dangerous news story was worth their loss of life and losing the families they left behind.

Depends whether you look at it as the search for a story, for tomorrow's chip papers in essence, or the desire to tell the world the truth of what's going on. One's a cheap commodity, and one is - for some people - worth risking your life for. Don't think that all the journos in there are driven by materialism or making a name for themselves, some have nobler aims...

 

[Gyroscope]

I think you might find that some journalists are idealists about the work they do. Far from taking risks to sell more papers, there are those who feel that being embedded leads to a very filtered experience of this conflict. By putting themselves in harm's way, they may have been risking their lives for a better, more free view of the battle for Baghdad.

I would have stayed on the outskirts, too. But you and I might have slept through a critical battle or other occurance that these journalists wouldn't have.

Being embedded is safer, too. But it also mean that all information you receive is with permission of the armed forces. Some of that information that we are given is psi-ops, maybe not intended to manipulate us, maybe so, but it isn't unbiased source material.

Security and freedom are always at odds. You have to give up a little of one to get a little of the other.

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by duffistuta

Don't think that all the journos in there are driven by materialism or making a name for themselves, some have nobler aims...

I totally understand that, and after uni i would love to become a journalist. there are many journos out there who are materially driven, and many who are not. I still wonder if the families of the journos killed accept the los of life, and understand why it happened. The chase for truth, or sensational stories, or money, or whatever drove these journalists was obviously to them more important than their families. I respect this determination, but wonder how the loss of a father of mother will affect the rest of the family, especially when the deaths could have been so easily avoided.

 

[duffistuta]

Was it Franklin?

Gyroscope - did Franklin not say something like 'Those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither freedom nor security'

?

EDIT ADD: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Well, I was close...ish.

 

[Gyroscope]

With all due respect,

You don't know enough about the situation to make such crass judgements. That is some very cynical stuff you are saying. Knowing that my father died for something he believd in might be just as important as having him there to play catch and watch freakin' little league games. There is always a sense of loss when a family member dies, but to assume that it is an act of insensitivity (to the family) is insulting to those who die for what they think is important despite the cost to them andf their families. Those families may well be proud of their lost, and approve of their courage despite the anguish.

(EDIT: the above is not addressed to the security/liberty issue, but the judgement that the journalists that died in Baghdad were trying to get more sales, better careers, whatever, at the expense of their duties to their families. I think it was Franklin, I can't remember. My memory is like a scrap heap.)

 

[duffistuta]

See above - and I agree 100%.