Have Delta Force changed their name? Or just some dodgy ploy?

[Gups]

Ipg/df

Hi all.

I have worked for the operations side of Delta Force for 5 years, starting as a weekend marshal and now working fulltime at H.O carrying out gun and co2 repairs and related health and safety issues. During that time we have always and only used the trading name 'Delta Force'.

To answer a few points raised above:

IPG or International Paintball Group is a different company from Delta Force. They are not owned by the same people. IPG only sell tickets, Delta Force provides paintball games facilities. There is nothing 'dodgy' going on.

The reason the tickets are now sold under the name 'IPG' is that Joe Public was offered tickets on the street by 'Delta Force Direct' ticket Sellers (also a separate company form Delta Force) but then instead of 'Joe' buying the tickets from the ticket seller, he often phoned Delta Force and made the booking via our offices. Although this cost him the same amount (occasionally a little more or less depending on current special offers) it did the DFD ticket seller out of a sale. As the tickets sellers are paid on a commission only basis and since the ticket sellers were doing all the legwork by raising the interest in the first place, they were a bit pi55ed off about this
Hence DFD changed their name to IPG. I believe they do sell exclusively for DF centres.

One person said above that that 38 quid for 8 people sounds dodgy, but it is up to the ticket seller what price he charges, up to the RRP, as the proceeds from the sale are his 'pay'.

Paint Prices: DF charge 6 quid per 100 by the bag of 100 or 5 quid per 100 by the box. This is a pretty standard rental paint price, certainly towards the lower end of rental paintball charges. I don't know of another RENTAL centre who sell for less actually? Our only revenue is from paint sales, which pays for:
Wages and national insurance (directors, full-time managers, marshals, admin, accounts, mechanics, health and safety, logistics & site development staff )
Insurance: Buildings, Contents Employers and Public Liability, (yes we DO have it, despite the rumours to the contrary).
Vehicles (for each of our 20 centres, purchase and maintenance costs)
Van insurance, road tax, breakdown cover,
Site building and maintenance, (huge costs!!)
Heating, water, waste disposal, electricity, co2, propane, generators etc
Equipment: guns, co2 bottles, hoppers, pots, packs, goggles, squeegees, (spares for all aforementioned) overalls and laundering
And probably lots of other costs, which don't spring to mind at the moment.

The 10 quid per 100 paintballs price doesn't actually 'exist'. The 10 quid FEE is what players are required to pay to confirm their place on the day, and it INCLUDES 100 paintballs. This is clearly set out on the tickets purchased from IPG.

If you make a booking and pay your 10 quid fee then decide the date doesn't suit you, it can be changed to a date of your choice and you don't lose the deposit.

Only if you fail to turn up on the day do you lose your deposit, but you can still use your tickets to book for another day.

We have found that if players pay nothing to confirm their place, some players simply don't bother turning up (e.g. if it's raining or whatever) as they have nothing to lose. Marshalling staff are booked in proportion to the number of players expected so understandably, we need to know how many players will be coming on the day to book in the marshals.

Steve and Sid, and anyone else who has a legitimate (recent) complaint, feel free to contact me at guppy@paintballgames.co.uk and i'll make sure your complaint reaches the relevant person.

DF is neither a rip -off, nor unsafe, nor dodgy.

Regards, Gups

 

[Tom Allen]

I must admit, "i was one of the many" who thought DF were iffy. But a visit to my local site showed me that they are both professional and competant. Every site has minor problems, marshalls having a bad day, guns failing, bottles leaking. The measure of a site is how they deal with these problems, and how big a smile the punters have at the end of the day.
I was impressed with DF's setup, and i would take a group to the site.

 

[Sid_Clan]

Never said DF were Dodgy Guppy, nor was I complaining, I was simply letting people know that some of the people selling on the streets are maybe a little shall we say inexperienced in sales

Everyone to their own as they say.

Sid

 

[Tommeh]

well i have heard very bad things about the DF sites and it isnt from just anyone, i wouldnt take a group or recommend them to anyone i would viste the site before i i go if i was gunna book.

 

[Steve Hancock]

DF is neither a rip -off, nor unsafe, nor dodgy.

I would agree that the cost of paintballing at Delta Force are well within rental standards, however the sales people often misrepresent these costs, if you can get them to even admit there will be any. I am sure that the details are there in tiny print somewhere, and I understand that people should check before buying, but they are not paintballers they don't know what they will need. Salesmen leading people to believe that the ticket will be the bulk of the cost of the day would constitute a rip off in my opinion. Maybe not relative to what they may pay elsewhere, but certainly relative to what they had been led to believe they would have to pay.

DF is neither a rip -off, nor unsafe, nor dodgy.

I'm inclined to believe that the sites are not significantly more unsafe than playing paintball elsewhere. Although the ratios of marshals to players mentioned sounded unsafe to me. However these and most of the accounts i have heard are from a number of years back and i willing to believe that standards have improved. If this is this the case, can you confirm that there has never been an issue with the number of marshals? I'm willing to accept that practices have been improved, but suspect this hasn't always been the case, which is where the reputation started.

DF is neither a rip -off, nor unsafe, nor dodgy.

I am aware of repeated incidents of trespass at uni's across the country, not just isolated incidents. Some of the people who promote Delta force are very dodgy! Personally I would not associate or do business with such dodgy people, as I would feel some responsibility for there conduct and that I would be dodgy by association. By the same token I consider Delta Force to be dodgy.

Delta may run a cleaner ship now, with better marshal numbers (for all I know), and employees like yourself who genuinely care about paintball and are a credit to them. But I don't believe they are completely reformed as they still try to get away with unscrupulous practices by passing their dirty work onto others. This also leads me to believe that if they could get away with anything else they would which does not inspire me with much confidence to do business with them.

 

[Dark Warrior]

Hey Gups do you have dealing with the guys from IPG cos the two that were promoting in my area recently knew you by name and nickname

 

[KitsuneAndy]

IPG or International Paintball Group is a different company from Delta Force. They are not owned by the same people. IPG only sell tickets, Delta Force provides paintball games facilities. There is nothing 'dodgy' going on.

Was just curious as a friend of mine was approached by IPG, and I looked them up online and their website makes out that they own/operate several sites. But when comparing it to the DF website, the sites are all DF sites. But the IPG site has no reference to DF, so it's unclear.

They were also told:

"Additional cost are £5 per 100 balls but last time I went I bought 2 hundred balls and that was enough........... unless you wanna play Rambo!!

You can also buy:
Smoke bombs
Paint Grenades
Paint Land Mines and much more."

200 paintballs for a whole day? I think not

 

[Gups]

Thx for the comments guys.

Steve i think you have hit the nail on the head by saying its 'by association' (and subsequent conclusion drawing) that gives people the impression that DF is a rip-off. We all do this, by taking limited evidence and forming our own ideas of something. I agree that unscrupulous ticket sellers, like those mentioned in the universities, do a great deal to attribute a bad name to DF. They are NOT DF employees but they do represent the company 'by association' as you say. Obviously i'm not the only person on these boards who cares about paintball, so if you do have some genuine info re bad representation from IPG staff, do please let me know on the email above. I would hasten to add tho, that of the thousands of tickets sold each week there are very few complaints, but only the bad news is aired...eg when was the last time you read a thread about a really great IPG ticket seller, although they do exist And guys, plz don't flood my inbox with complaints that "I was wearing my Eclipse playing top and they didnt even know what an Ego was etc..." These guys are selling RENTAL paintball tickets so they need to know as much about tourney paintball as the British Heart Foundation subscriptions lady in the high street knows about the treatment of atherosclerosis.

DW, Hey m8, havent seen you in a while, you at Warped BG on 30th?
Yes i have dealings with IPG staff. I have their managers' email addresses and phone numbers as, more recently, i have become the source of the equipment (guns and co2 cylinders) which they display on their stands. I may not know them in person but they probably know my name, or know me by email.

Marshal Ratios. At DF, ideally it's 1 marshal to 20 players. So a game of 40 would have 2 marshals. Sometimes this is 1:25. I think this something that should be improved. Marshal ratios are not my area, but from a marshals viewpoint, i'd personally like to see a ratio of 1 marshal to 15 players. I don't think this would improve safety, since marshals are not first aid trained, (would you want a grubby 18 yr old giving you mouth to mouth, lol) all they would do would be call an ambulance- in the event of a serious accident. Of course we always have a qualified first aider on site, which is the manager and/or assistant manager who wold be the first port of call. I do however think increasing marshal to player ratios would improve customer service, which is good for repeat business and reputation.

Why do i think increasing marshal ratios would NOT improve safety? Well virtually ALL of the accidents we get at DF fall into the category 'slips trips and falls' which, unless you had one marshal per player pointing out every tree root or fox hole, wouldn't be helped by additional marshals. Goggle lifts are in the main preventable, by use of the JT headsheild which has the chin strap. It's a case of checking the chin strap is tightened securely before each player goes out to play. Most goggle lifts are an accidental 'oh sorry i forgot' but, with the chin strap, players have to put down their gun and deliberately undo the chin strap with both hands so it requires a bit of time and thought. I'd like to see the other mainstream paintball providers using the full head protection/chin strap JT goggles, just for this reason, but i guess it's a case of initial outlay vs profit.

Sid, soz m8, i wasn't implying you'd called DF 'dodgy' personally, my reply was a general response to lots of posters' comments which got a bit mixed up!

Tom, Cheers for the thumbs up. I remember you being a critic, all the more worthy a supporter because of it IMO

 

[Gups]

Was just curious as a friend of mine was approached by IPG, and I looked them up online and their website makes out that they own/operate several sites. But when comparing it to the DF website, the sites are all DF sites. But the IPG site has no reference to DF, so it's unclear.

They were also told:

"Additional cost are £5 per 100 balls but last time I went I bought 2 hundred balls and that was enough........... unless you wanna play Rambo!!

You can also buy:
Smoke bombs
Paint Grenades
Paint Land Mines and much more."

200 paintballs for a whole day? I think not

OK you got me there! I havent looked at the IPG site, as i said before, my area is guns and gas, but i'll get back to you on that...

Re what your friend was told, i agree 200 paintballs for a whole day is daft. Was your friend told that recently and do you know where? But yes, you can buy smoke grenades, paint grenades and thunderflashes on site and paint trip mines are currently being looked into as a possibility... although no-one at HO has managed to wire one up yet without 100ml of blue goo being deposited down their front (and damn, i tried!)

 

[KitsuneAndy]

OK you got me there! I havent looked at the IPG site, as i said before, my area is guns and gas, but i'll get back to you on that...

Re what your friend was told, i agree 200 paintballs for a whole day is daft. Was your friend told that recently and do you know where? But yes, you can buy smoke grenades, paint grenades and thunderflashes on site and paint trip mines are currently being looked into as a possibility... although no-one at HO has managed to wire one up yet without 100ml of blue goo being deposited down their front (and damn, i tried!)

It was in the last couple of weeks Gups, there's also one other thing troubling me about it, but I've pm'd you with that as I don't want to say anything I'm not 100% sure of.. As I said above, it just looked dodgy with the websites claiming that sites were both IPG and DF.

I know people who've had a great time at DF sites, so not suggesting their sites are dodgy, just the sales techniques leave a lot to be desired. (but as said above, the sales reps are only DF by association)