Hand chronos ! Announcement!

[Alan Smith]

Flash dude I can't believe you have written that.

Waiting for the game to start and pausing your shooting in game are two totally different time frames one is like thirty seconds and the other is between 5 and 15 minute. They are not comparable.

So in game if you go over 1 shot with a calibrated chroney then you take a walk!

Reg creep can be caused by dirty air and filling your bottle too fast, both of these things can be out of a players control!

Personally if I’m inconsistent over the chroney I get my reg cleaned or marker fixed and I run below the limit so I wont go over. But hypothetically that wouldn't stop me from going hot if I waited 15 min had slight reg creep that I wasn't aware of and got one 302 shot over a hand-heldjust before the start of the game. Or if a marshal with an un-calibrated hand held came over to me in game and found I was doing 311 and 1-4-1ing me when my marker was actually legally firing at 294.

I'm trying to point out that very simple protocol will make the system work and be fair!!!!

 

[acsik]

Originally posted by gaff
if you are gonna use it properly you cant without interfering with the player, the manufacturer needs to design something to allow this

A hook possibly !! You can just hang it from the side of the barrel...


Simple elegant and it would work too!

 

[stongle]

Gaff and Collier speak'eth the truth. Much of the issue is getting the marshalls to chrono gats properly in the first place. It's all very well being the 301 fps / trigger bounce tyrant (it's a virtue of the vicious you know), but only if you know how to chrono properly.

 

[Red_Merkin]

The judges and the Ultimates applied no common sense here.

here's the problem right here.
If you leave a gun to sit in the sun for 15 minutes the air in the chamber is going to heat up, expand and raise the velocity. You have to allow players to shoot a shot before you hand held chrono them.

But that dosn't change the fact that one shot comming out of the gun at an unsafe velocity. How do you stop guns from creeping up like that, when things like heat from prolonged exposure to sunlight and dirty air cause velocities to creep?

What happens if you leave your gun for 10 minutes and the first shot you fire is 380 (it can happen) then each subsiquent shot is 290?

 

[jotajotaZ]

After the ten seconds call, the players must shoot x shots to the ground (say 5, for example). Before making a speed check previous to the game, marshalls will shoot 5 shots and measure the subsiquent 3. If any of these 3 shots is over 300, the marker will not be allowed in the game.

Does it makes sense?

 

[Red_Merkin]

not a bad idea...

 

[Dannefaerd]

There is something that can calibrate the handhelds .... I posted a photo of it on here a while ago. Apparently it is still in testing, but should be commercial soon (or so I was told).

Martin

Here is the photo of the calibrator.

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tournament/psp/2003/vegas/galleryxball/DVC00069.jpg

 

[Cube]

Originally posted by windler
In Toulouse we had as usual some problems with the hand chronos, well not exactly with the handy ones, but with the players, who dont realise that they might differ from the red ones.
This problem is well known, but there seems to be no way how we can handle that in a better way.

Sorry, but I agree with the others

As far as I am concerned it is the responsibility of the organiser to ensure that the equipment used for testing is consistent and accurate.

It is not down to the players to "accomodate" for crap equipment, as mentioned by others we spend a fortune to get kit that works as consistently as possible in order to get as much of a competitive edge as we can.

I shoot 260 someone else shoots 290 they have an advantage, it may be small but an advantage none the less.

If you the organisers and rule makers cannot come up with a method of dealing with equipment inaccuracies YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING THE EQUIPMENT

remember velocity inaccuracies may be up or down

There is a simple way without expensive equipment of minimising the error,

1. Produce a consistent method of using ALL the chronographs and ensure that it is adhered to by ANYONE that acts as a chronograph judge, be it red, grey or handheld

2. Have an "official" red chronograph that is determined as the accurate source for all other chronographs in use.

3. Have a marker fired over the chronograph 20 times and work out the arithmetic mean of the shots, (bit of stats, not too hard surely). (you could even work out the standard deviation of that chronograph about the mean for that marker).

4. Shoot 20 shots from the smae marker at the same time over every chronograph in use on the day and work out their arithmetic means.

5. For each chronograph give an equivalent chart/sticker/something to the "official" chronograph, so players/marshals can work out the FPS on the field chrono relative to the official chrono.

6. Do this at the start of each tournament day, (preferably).

So if a marker shooting 300fps on the official chrono reads 305 on a handheld it has a minus 5 value for field readings as it is inaccurate by 5 fps, (if you work out standard deviations you can give a +- fps figure too).Therefore a player that gets a reading of 301 is OK as they're actually shooting 296 and a player that gets 306 is hot at a value of 301

That way everyone can relate their velocity back to the official chrony and doesn't get pissed off when they're pulled for a hot gun on one field, are OK on a proper chrony, and are well under on another field.

It isn't rocket science organisers, think about it logically before announcing, (effectively), "our kits ****e deal with it".

BTW I had to do this week in week out to check and calibrate 5 decimal point weigh scales in a series of chemical labs and work out any potential inconsistancies and allow for them/get them repaired.

It's not a full day job and would apply consistency and stop the whining about inaccurate chronos and pulled guns, at least it should if everything works well and the kit/ techniques are done properly

 

[Pete Martin]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just do away with the field chrono, and everyone on the field has to chrono onto the field with the handhelds that will be used during the game?

and I still think that it should be the average of three shots even when on the field, and before any body says that would take too long... three shots is quick and easy and i'm sure you'd rather take an extra second or so to chrono rather than being pulled off for a 301 shot?

Pete

 

[Cube]

Actually....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
...I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone eliminated during play for a hot gun ?!

All the problems are when the judges do the "30 seconds, guns on the ground" test.

So - why not just bring the official chrono in for that ?

The whole object of that excercise is to catch people with cheat modes or similar idiots !

Nick

Never said that Nick, and I was referring to all the tales of we went out with guns that were OK on one chrono and hot on another so the guns were pulled and we had to play with 1,2,3 etc guns down.

The organisers would argue to bring in the "official" chrony at that point on every field would be a logistical nightmare and impossible if not impractical

I'm suggesting a method, (other than proper calibration of devices) that may provide a solution whilst working within current procedures.

But I still maintain if the equipment is crap or inaccurate it shouldn't be used, certainly not in a high profile competition in a game desperately looking to be labelled a sport.

Sports at least try to have consistent measuring devices, perhaps the Athletic field events should have different measurement devices, should make the long jump interesting, you jumped 65ft according to my tape measure