Getting the local press interested
- Thread starter Tom Tom
- Start date
Ok, please don't take this the wrong way, it is not meant to be offensive or in any way doubting anything anyone has said, but how do you know it will definitley be shown?Originally posted by Russell Smith
It will be shown.
Any idea on the proposed format? e.g. full games/highlights.
How do they plan to make it attractive to joe public?
Try as I will I can't for the life of me fathom why Sky would choose a UK league as apposed to the Millenium Series (for example) or are the rights to film that already tied up?
Again this is not meant to offend or to 'belittle' the work done by anyone.
Cheers,
Paul
Sky sports promised to show edited highlights of 2002 UKAmerican football bowl game and they actually showed more than we expected them to. They are good to there wordOriginally posted by Paul Collier
Ok, please don't take this the wrong way, it is not meant to be offensive or in any way doubting anything anyone has said, but how do you know it will definitley be shown?
Any idea on the proposed format? e.g. full games/highlights.
How do they plan to make it attractive to joe public?
Try as I will I can't for the life of me fathom why Sky would choose a UK league as apposed to the Millenium Series (for example) or are the rights to film that already tied up?
Again this is not meant to offend or to 'belittle' the work done by anyone.
Cheers,
Paul
Don't knock it because if they show 5 mins worth of each event to make just one show, that more television coverage that paintball has had since X-fire and Mission Paintball (Le Bouff
)The main reason Sky will go for the PA league is the fact that the know that UK viewers can relate to the UK teams town names and they are willing to throw money into trailing something that might get them more viewers.
Think about all those people who play paintball, watched X-fire and still watch the Mission Paintball (Le Bouff
) repeats, all potential viewers.If UK paintball becomes are reasonable success then watch Sky approach the Millenium Series and there be a sudden request for teams to be locality representative
Dark Warrior is right,
Because the PA League and Cup are location specific and not just Team Chump, but The Bumsville Chumps people can relate to locality of it all.
Why do you think footy is followed? because you can follow a team with your geographically associated name,
If you live in Peterborough you can support Peterborough Utd, etcetc.
Sky Sports are interested in being able to talk about players from each team and talk about the locations and possible rivalry that may be born of it.
Because the PA League and Cup are location specific and not just Team Chump, but The Bumsville Chumps people can relate to locality of it all.
Why do you think footy is followed? because you can follow a team with your geographically associated name,
If you live in Peterborough you can support Peterborough Utd, etcetc.
Sky Sports are interested in being able to talk about players from each team and talk about the locations and possible rivalry that may be born of it.
Really???
Further more, your geographic location argument is possibly slightly disproved by the popularity of Premiership teams outside their own proximity. This is product of TV and the media not the geographic location (or game), itself. Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea etc could be called Red, White and Blue for little difference to their current popularity. In other instances people do feel the need to "belong", to a tribal (team) grouping and peer pressure to conform. Ok all well and good probably some psycho babble to justify that on the net somewhere, but do you really support everyone of your local teams (Netball, Swimming, Hockey etc etc etc)????
A geographic location may add a context to a team, but by no means should it be or is an actual requirement itself. This assumption (and that's what it is at present), has yet to be proven for paintball, In fact one could argue that the only media success for paintball to date has not followed this model (NXL yet to be televised so excluded). Whether this remains true for the UK market remains to be seen. The organisers of the cup should be applauded for taking a theory or idea and making it the basis for the competition, however peoples dogmatic insistence that this is the correct route to take, has yet to be proved for Paintball. The Cup is a regional competition designed to pit regions against regions (no problem with that), whether this translates into interest or support is not as clear cut, nor are many of your arguments proven.
There are many other sports and televised activities that enjoy a supporter base that do not use geographic location as a basis for affinity. Look at Motor Racing, although one can claim that teams are based in Country X, their support is not national or regional in boundary. Motor Racing is many times more popular than paintball, in both those participating and spectating. Interestingly neither paintball nor motor sport are activities undertaken through peoples formative years, and are both prohibitively expensive, and teams are drawn to gether from a wide range of locations even countries. Would this not indicate that perhaps support may not necessarily have to be pinned to the bastion of geography.
A lot of contributors have tunnel vision, you assume because you play and get an adrenaline rush from paintball that most others will do the same. Furthermore it appears that football is the only yardstick you use to measure the participation and support of an activity. Unfortunately, for all of the adrenaline you get through playing and some players technical ability, this may not translate to TV. Many games are so often won by the pure process of pinching out your opponents with only the odd game breaking move. Football is much more fluid and enjoys a totally different dynamic that a game could effectively go either way, thus keeping the audience engaged. Football is ingrained in the national psyche, paintball is an escapism or alternate activity amongst many others to choose from, it's unrealistic to assume we'll bask in the spotlight of our own magnificence.
I have one other comment. Some contributors appear to be quick to dismiss Paul Colliers contribution. Surely if you were a player of the game, you'd want to play the highest level of competition and be the best, not be a performing TV monkey. Do you really think that "real" sportsmen and women want to, firstly be the best (and then get the associated recognition), or just get their mugs on TV ala Jodie Marsh or any other Z list celebrity (because unfortunately that's what some of you sound like). I feel that players should be concentrating on their game at the highest incarnation (EXL, NPPL Super 7's Div 1 X Ball etc). This displays the game in it's highest evolution, and should determine whether an appetite for TV exists, below this and the game is too open for misrepresentation, tinkering and could do irreparable damage to the sport itself. TV is a dual edged sword, handled correctly and it will propel paintball forwards, sell-out and it's back to the woods for us all (not that I have much of a problem with that...... it might make great TV).
The organisers of the Cup have forged ahead with their view of Paintball and how it should be represented, even offering such an event should be applauded. Any work undertaken to promote the sport off peoples own backs is great news. By the sounds of it many share this vision for progression of the sport as you are well entitled, although I feel the intoxicating allure of TV and the desire to appear mainstream may be leading people to think with their ego's (and there's a sh1tload of that going in at the moment), not their heads. And we all know what they say about ego's writing cheques peoples abilities can't cash.........
It's an open forum, everybody is entitled to their own viewpoint, but the burn the heretic attitude to those that don't share your argument (using the same repetitive justification), and certain posters usage of Goebbels-esque posting techniques may make the non-committed wonder..........
Whooooaaah, ease back on the football analogies. By saying a team is popular because of it's geographic name or location is a gross over simplification. The reason Football is a popular activity has as much to do with geographic association as a combination of current media, PR and the playing of football throughout peoples upbringing as both a social and physical activity. This use of football as a base for both friendship and the dominance of it as physical activity (through youth), is what makes football popular. The continuation of friendships through local spectatorship (as a form of staying in contact with childhood friends), goes as far to explain local support as anything else. Not least to mention an outlet from the domestic hell or "her indoors", although one could simply take up golf or any other number of other activities.
Further more, your geographic location argument is possibly slightly disproved by the popularity of Premiership teams outside their own proximity. This is product of TV and the media not the geographic location (or game), itself. Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea etc could be called Red, White and Blue for little difference to their current popularity. In other instances people do feel the need to "belong", to a tribal (team) grouping and peer pressure to conform. Ok all well and good probably some psycho babble to justify that on the net somewhere, but do you really support everyone of your local teams (Netball, Swimming, Hockey etc etc etc)????
A geographic location may add a context to a team, but by no means should it be or is an actual requirement itself. This assumption (and that's what it is at present), has yet to be proven for paintball, In fact one could argue that the only media success for paintball to date has not followed this model (NXL yet to be televised so excluded). Whether this remains true for the UK market remains to be seen. The organisers of the cup should be applauded for taking a theory or idea and making it the basis for the competition, however peoples dogmatic insistence that this is the correct route to take, has yet to be proved for Paintball. The Cup is a regional competition designed to pit regions against regions (no problem with that), whether this translates into interest or support is not as clear cut, nor are many of your arguments proven.
There are many other sports and televised activities that enjoy a supporter base that do not use geographic location as a basis for affinity. Look at Motor Racing, although one can claim that teams are based in Country X, their support is not national or regional in boundary. Motor Racing is many times more popular than paintball, in both those participating and spectating. Interestingly neither paintball nor motor sport are activities undertaken through peoples formative years, and are both prohibitively expensive, and teams are drawn to gether from a wide range of locations even countries. Would this not indicate that perhaps support may not necessarily have to be pinned to the bastion of geography.
A lot of contributors have tunnel vision, you assume because you play and get an adrenaline rush from paintball that most others will do the same. Furthermore it appears that football is the only yardstick you use to measure the participation and support of an activity. Unfortunately, for all of the adrenaline you get through playing and some players technical ability, this may not translate to TV. Many games are so often won by the pure process of pinching out your opponents with only the odd game breaking move. Football is much more fluid and enjoys a totally different dynamic that a game could effectively go either way, thus keeping the audience engaged. Football is ingrained in the national psyche, paintball is an escapism or alternate activity amongst many others to choose from, it's unrealistic to assume we'll bask in the spotlight of our own magnificence.
I have one other comment. Some contributors appear to be quick to dismiss Paul Colliers contribution. Surely if you were a player of the game, you'd want to play the highest level of competition and be the best, not be a performing TV monkey. Do you really think that "real" sportsmen and women want to, firstly be the best (and then get the associated recognition), or just get their mugs on TV ala Jodie Marsh or any other Z list celebrity (because unfortunately that's what some of you sound like). I feel that players should be concentrating on their game at the highest incarnation (EXL, NPPL Super 7's Div 1 X Ball etc). This displays the game in it's highest evolution, and should determine whether an appetite for TV exists, below this and the game is too open for misrepresentation, tinkering and could do irreparable damage to the sport itself. TV is a dual edged sword, handled correctly and it will propel paintball forwards, sell-out and it's back to the woods for us all (not that I have much of a problem with that...... it might make great TV).
The organisers of the Cup have forged ahead with their view of Paintball and how it should be represented, even offering such an event should be applauded. Any work undertaken to promote the sport off peoples own backs is great news. By the sounds of it many share this vision for progression of the sport as you are well entitled, although I feel the intoxicating allure of TV and the desire to appear mainstream may be leading people to think with their ego's (and there's a sh1tload of that going in at the moment), not their heads. And we all know what they say about ego's writing cheques peoples abilities can't cash.........
It's an open forum, everybody is entitled to their own viewpoint, but the burn the heretic attitude to those that don't share your argument (using the same repetitive justification), and certain posters usage of Goebbels-esque posting techniques may make the non-committed wonder..........
Stongle you put many valid and well argued points across and I think like you say its an open forum for all views.
To start with football you are right, location is now a by product of the system. People follow Man U from all over the world, but again have a location that all ties them together. (Old Trafford, the thearte of dreams)
Football is a sport that we have all grown with and because of its history is the main outlet for many people across the world.
As of other sports, I do follow have a local interest in the other local teams, e.g the Guildford Flames Ice Hockey. I have been watching them for a few year (on and Off) because guildford does not have a footy team, My nearest (well used to be) was Woking which is a conference side. And yes i think you are right people follow the bigger clubs because they are more accesable theough the media.
Your next point of paintball in the media is also true, as yet it has not been tried so has no real grounding or basis maybe for all this excitement.
I do hope not.
While it is a double edge sword would you not like to see it atleast trialed and with even the smallest interest from the non-paintball community the other bigger events moght get the publicity that would then open peoples eyes to the (agreed) better players.
But to start with people who don't know any different will not know we are not pro's they will see the format and the style, the rest is open to development
You mention that with paintball the game is dependent on skill, my apologies if i have read this wrong, but football is more even.
Well yes if you match the teams to other skill levels.
If my team plays dynasty we are going to lose, If Woking play Man U they will lose. It may be close but you can argue that through all sport, it is a level of training, commitment and skill.
I hope this makes some sense to your argument which is certinly valid and depending on which side of the coin you want to look will ring true to different people.
Maybe we should not be going on TV or in the papers but as paintball stood your own team of friends would not get local media interest and show people there is more to the sport than just rec ball.
Surely the divisions of the PA League will start to develop the skill levels and this will I expect be reflected on the TV, not all leagues would be shown if the lower divisions suck.
To start with football you are right, location is now a by product of the system. People follow Man U from all over the world, but again have a location that all ties them together. (Old Trafford, the thearte of dreams)
Football is a sport that we have all grown with and because of its history is the main outlet for many people across the world.
As of other sports, I do follow have a local interest in the other local teams, e.g the Guildford Flames Ice Hockey. I have been watching them for a few year (on and Off) because guildford does not have a footy team, My nearest (well used to be) was Woking which is a conference side. And yes i think you are right people follow the bigger clubs because they are more accesable theough the media.
Your next point of paintball in the media is also true, as yet it has not been tried so has no real grounding or basis maybe for all this excitement.
I do hope not.
While it is a double edge sword would you not like to see it atleast trialed and with even the smallest interest from the non-paintball community the other bigger events moght get the publicity that would then open peoples eyes to the (agreed) better players.
But to start with people who don't know any different will not know we are not pro's they will see the format and the style, the rest is open to development
You mention that with paintball the game is dependent on skill, my apologies if i have read this wrong, but football is more even.
Well yes if you match the teams to other skill levels.
If my team plays dynasty we are going to lose, If Woking play Man U they will lose. It may be close but you can argue that through all sport, it is a level of training, commitment and skill.
I hope this makes some sense to your argument which is certinly valid and depending on which side of the coin you want to look will ring true to different people.
Maybe we should not be going on TV or in the papers but as paintball stood your own team of friends would not get local media interest and show people there is more to the sport than just rec ball.
Surely the divisions of the PA League will start to develop the skill levels and this will I expect be reflected on the TV, not all leagues would be shown if the lower divisions suck.
I think we've been through this before.
In actual fact Tom Tom is actually correct in what he said...all the media interest has been generated specifically because of the concept that created the PA in the first place.
I'm not even going to try and get into the psychology of why football is so popular or why people follow it, but the simple truth is that paintball as a sport gets next to zero media coverage and no spectators...Despite the monumental effort & hard work that went into Campaign two years ago the only spectator was a guy walking his dog through the park who took a wrong turn into the stadium...
Paintball as a "sport" has been trying the same thing for 20 years and got nowhere...now the PA has decided to try it another way. So far the results have been promising if not conclusive, but as an event the PA cup collectively got more media coverage than any other paintball tourney outside of the USA so we kinda have some documented evidence to support our theory.
I get the impression through previous posts that you seem to have some issue with what we're attempting to do, or the way we're doing it, or perhaps even with me personally, I really don't know.
Regardless however I object rather strongly to your attempts to portray the PA league as some kind of circus with "performing monkeys". The players taking part in this series are all committed and who are taking a professional approach to the sport in the UK. And not by simply "regular practice" but also by reorganizing themselves into a structure that can be recognized by those outside of paintball. Every one of these guys all want to play their best game and I think it's wrong for you to suggest that they don't. Certainly not on the grounds that they don't play NPPL, NXL or X-ball.
I can only assume you haven't familiarized yourself with the total concept of the Paintball Association or the organization & structure behind it other wise you would realise that we keep insisting that it is NOT just about tagging a town’s name on the front of your team name.
Interestingly the TV coverage is on a "sports" program on a "sports" channel...(Sky Sports...you may have heard of it) not some reality game show on some minority public access TV channel where they happen to use paintball guns and have some dizzy soft porn actress introducing it.
There's a hell of a lot of hard work and effort gone into this. For me the Sky Sports deal is icing on the cake for those guys who want to be the best they can be and have dedicated themselves to proving it in a national testing ground.
If I seem somewhat defensive it’s because from your post I get the underlying feeling you seem to be going to some depth to try decry the importance & significance of what the PA has, and continues, to achieve.
There's a very string & sincere philosophy behind the PA, it’s league and it’s Cup event. If you’re interested I'd be pleased to discuss it with you. You have my number?
In actual fact Tom Tom is actually correct in what he said...all the media interest has been generated specifically because of the concept that created the PA in the first place.
I'm not even going to try and get into the psychology of why football is so popular or why people follow it, but the simple truth is that paintball as a sport gets next to zero media coverage and no spectators...Despite the monumental effort & hard work that went into Campaign two years ago the only spectator was a guy walking his dog through the park who took a wrong turn into the stadium...
Paintball as a "sport" has been trying the same thing for 20 years and got nowhere...now the PA has decided to try it another way. So far the results have been promising if not conclusive, but as an event the PA cup collectively got more media coverage than any other paintball tourney outside of the USA so we kinda have some documented evidence to support our theory.
I get the impression through previous posts that you seem to have some issue with what we're attempting to do, or the way we're doing it, or perhaps even with me personally, I really don't know.
Regardless however I object rather strongly to your attempts to portray the PA league as some kind of circus with "performing monkeys". The players taking part in this series are all committed and who are taking a professional approach to the sport in the UK. And not by simply "regular practice" but also by reorganizing themselves into a structure that can be recognized by those outside of paintball. Every one of these guys all want to play their best game and I think it's wrong for you to suggest that they don't. Certainly not on the grounds that they don't play NPPL, NXL or X-ball.
I can only assume you haven't familiarized yourself with the total concept of the Paintball Association or the organization & structure behind it other wise you would realise that we keep insisting that it is NOT just about tagging a town’s name on the front of your team name.
Interestingly the TV coverage is on a "sports" program on a "sports" channel...(Sky Sports...you may have heard of it) not some reality game show on some minority public access TV channel where they happen to use paintball guns and have some dizzy soft porn actress introducing it.
There's a hell of a lot of hard work and effort gone into this. For me the Sky Sports deal is icing on the cake for those guys who want to be the best they can be and have dedicated themselves to proving it in a national testing ground.
If I seem somewhat defensive it’s because from your post I get the underlying feeling you seem to be going to some depth to try decry the importance & significance of what the PA has, and continues, to achieve.
There's a very string & sincere philosophy behind the PA, it’s league and it’s Cup event. If you’re interested I'd be pleased to discuss it with you. You have my number?
Hatts,
You're taking Stongle's post way too personal. It's not an attack on you, it ain't an attack at all.
What he is saying is that at this point in time all we see is words and nothing more. If all works out fine, great! If it doesn't, well you tried. As we say in Holland, you are selling the bear's fur before you have actually shot the damn thing.
You're taking Stongle's post way too personal. It's not an attack on you, it ain't an attack at all.
What he is saying is that at this point in time all we see is words and nothing more. If all works out fine, great! If it doesn't, well you tried. As we say in Holland, you are selling the bear's fur before you have actually shot the damn thing.
Actually "pro" is a rather interesting terminology as a "pro" sportsman or woman gets paid to do what they do.
If it's a question of skill, these days it seems more "what level you can afford to play at" rather than "what skill level you can play at".
If it's a question of attitude then in my honest opinion the team managers who have signed up for the PA are some of the most "pro" people around...having the guts to stick their head up and say we want to try and move things forward and get people to take us seriously.
So yes Tom Tom is right when he says most of the teams probably would get beaten by Dynasty...but so what? These guys and their teams are going play their hearts out to the best of their ability and be damn proud that they're representing something and someone other than their own ego's...why shouldn' they receive recognition for that?
Fact: (you're going to love this) Sunderland Top Guns got more genuine spectator support at the the PA Cup than any single Pro team, national or international got at any international event I've attended in the last 3 years...and I've been to a couple....
A serious sportsmen, i.e. a pro, mostly plays to cater to his ego. Trust me, I've been around a few (in more sports than just paintball)
If you want to compete at the top levels in any game, you have to lose the "****s and giggles" attitude, and all you want to do is assert your dominance. In other words, be the alpha male/female. No more, no less.