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Evil's new t shirts.

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
I find that amazing

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
It's weird that the Salm thing and these T-shirts are getting knickers in a twist, yet I looked through a recent issue of a pball magazine and there's a pic from a scenario game of a guy with a Nazi uniform and an SS badge on.
...
Wolf and Tyger - you both felt that tha Salm thing was cataclysmically bad, how do you feel about that picture?
A part of me is screaming not to get dragged into another political BS thing, becasue I'm in the mood to punch someone in the teeth and make them scream for thier mommy. on the other hand, it needs to be said. Again.

I don't like scenario games. They're out of control, they're dangerous, and someone will get hurt someday unless someone gets their stuff together. It's a miracle that nobody's gotten cold-cocked or beat-down by players who get 'over-zealous' with their assumed 'roles'. Dollack pretty much solidified my opinions of scenarios about 2+ years ago, and with the exception of Shatnerball, I have avoided the scenario stuff for the most part.

I also don't like scenario games that try to 'recreate' warfare. I feel that it's making money off the dead, and it's trivialising the sacrifices they made. If you're going to recreate warfare, then scenario game directors need to go even further. On this board some time ago, I asked someone (who was saying that "D-Day" scenario was going to be the best recreation ever) if I could wear my best friend's brains on my shoulder as we 'storm the beach'? War is not a pleasant affair, something that we've all lost site of becasue of 'push-button warfare'.

I also have VERY PERSONAL reasons for not liking people who emulate Nazi troops. There's a team of kids who play in Wisconsin here who revel in the "SS" imagery, including their 'team shirt' with Nazi symbology. (Ask Alien or Yoda, they saw them at Sam's...) So far, I've managed to restrain myself from using my Stroker as a rectal examination tool, but my patience with them is rapidly running out. I can rack that up to youth and rebellion, but not for he guys who are 25+ who do the same thing.

Do I think it's a problem? Not really a group problem, becasue for the most part it's only small groups and peoples that do this out of a larger whole. If there was a field that was called "Waffen Proving Grounds", then you'd have a bigger problem. Individuals are not a problem. Just keep in mind many bikers also revel in the "Nazi" image too.

Now, on the other hand, if a news program went to that scenario game, saw this guy in his full Nazi getup, and asked him "So do yo like to shoot the Americans?" And he said anything like "yeah", we're screwed. If they could goad him into a "Seig Heil", we're screwed big time. And if they can find a group of 3 guys to do it all together, we're S.O.L.

Oh, and as for th Salm BS, whatever guys. Go pretend to be athletes and think you're creating a better image for paintball. You're running in place, not progressing, not going anywhere. But hell, who the hell cares. Make your money, get out while you can, and rape the players wallets. Cheaters, Nazi wannabees, militia training... until we collectively get our **** together there won't be an image we can use to combat the media who wants to make a story. Wanna make a diffrence? Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of the way.

-Tyger
 

Mark

UK Cougars
Jul 9, 2001
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Originally posted by crom-dubh

OK OK the SS thang is going over the top.
Well hows this for things being politically inccorect there is a player who did indeed turn up for a big game in the aformentioned stormtrooper outfit ok that was dealt with at the time but that same player still has a nazi eagle set into the handle of his marker (if this player is reading this then you know I "could" name you but then that would be a little unfair, just be aware that you are known and your seemily political beliefs also known, keep them to yourself don't advertise them !!)

As a side note to this political stylee beliefs following the sept 11th horrors I was at tournament where there were some muslim players who by way of their religion have to pray at set times of the day and big up to them as they made their way to a very quiet part of the site to practice their belief, very sensible and considerate.


Also a long while ago back in the mists of time (lol) there was a team call Stark Staring Bonkers who were forever been called in readyness for a game by the initials so they made a set of patches for the team using just those intials (complete in the nazi typeface)...didn't last long.
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Y'all gettin' off track here

By the inimical nature of the Nazi association, etc. The question posed was--Which is worse for pball, some goober in SS duds playing scenarios or PMI's 'Cheaters live longer' T's.
All things being equal I would agree the Nazi clown is the hands down winner, but--
All things aren't equal as the tourney side receives alot more of the pball media's attention and tourney players are becoming more noticeable because they are beginning to take the game outside it's traditional boundaries. I can't count the number of times I've been asked in airports by strangers what the Scott, Dye, KAPP shirt relates to. How many rec players are distinguishable from anybody else when they're living their daily lives?
So if 3 people out of 10 are likely to object to either issue how many more people are gonna discover the PMI T-shirts compared to a wacko scenario gamer?
 

crom-dubh

WHATEVER...
Sep 9, 2001
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I am not trying to stir anything with what I post (thought I would clarify that)

War is a big seller whether we like it or not. Movies, books and video games are good examples of this. Until these forms of media stop sensationalizing it, there are gonna be people who will wanna recreate what they see/read/play on the paintball field.

I agree with Tyger on the rest of his post though

Its easy to just blame the cammo wearing re ballers for the bad image paintball has, but we need to find solutions and work together as a whole (damn I sound like a tree hugging hippy type)

Go to punter days and talk about the complexities of tourney.
Address the real problems we are facing.
Get as many people as you can to play ball and spread the good word.
:D :D :D :D :D
 

JTHM

American Prat
Oct 31, 2002
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Y'all gettin' off track here

Originally posted by Baca Loco
.. How many rec players are distinguishable from anybody else when they're living their daily lives?
Well that would depend on if the afore mentioned person was wearing Waffen SS regalia now wouldn't it ? :)
 

Beaker

Hello again
Jul 9, 2001
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Y'all gettin' off track here

Originally posted by Baca Loco

So if 3 people out of 10 are likely to object to either issue how many more people are gonna discover the PMI T-shirts compared to a wacko scenario gamer?
No more IMHO,
Ref's suck - not paintball specific
Cheaters win (or whatever it is) - not paintball specific
Overshooting isn't a crime - more so, but it's not "Overshooting in paintball isn't a crime".

But considering at least the majority of kids that will wear these could otherwise be wearing some other socially unacceptable shirt - I doubt you'll get lots of dads etc in them - then I don't see it as a big deal.

Those that know what it is are ballers anyway, those that don't wont be able to work it out.
 

Cube

M2Q'd eblade or the LV1...decisions, decisions
May 4, 2002
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Re: Y'all gettin' off track here

Originally posted by Beaker
Those that know what it is are ballers anyway, those that don't wont be able to work it out.
D'you know the worst paintball T-Shirt available at the moment in my opinion?

Picture a t-shirt, large picture of someone with a funny looking gun. To us a paintballer, to others a gunman with a funny looking gun.

The Wording? Well as far as I can read it off the site it's:

M*GGER
Main Entry: ZMugger
Function Noun
Etymology (^3) Mug
Date 1863 : one who attacks with intent to rob.

"one who attacks with intent to rob"

Jeez, all this talk about "refs suck" and P8ntwear has a t-shirt showing a person with a gun, with the word Mugger and a definition about robbing people.

wanna talk inappropriate T-Shirts...look no further.

...and yes I know it's a bit of fun with an "in" word and no I haven't had a sense of humour failure.

But look at it from a non-players point of view. I was showing the site to a colleague at work and he thought it was dodgy. I spent a good 5 mins explaining the paintball term 'mugging' to them before they got it.

I hope the shirt doesn't have any reference to paintball other than the picture, or it'll be an easy link between paintballers and 'old lady' robbers.
:rolleyes:
 

Jones the Paint Magnet

All the gear - no idea
Dec 19, 2001
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going back a-ways

Sorry Beaker but your comment that all rec ballers would assume someone dressed as a Nazi was just roleplaying is wrong.

There have been enough posts to show that the majority of rec ballers play the game for fun. My game involves flags, eliminations, and some different fields to that of sup-air. Yes, there are some playing for the first time who don't know better and think paintball is "war". There are some who should know better and are too stupid not to. These are the minority, and it p****s me off to be tarred with the same brush as I'm sure it p****s tourney players off to all be labelled "cheats" (which I know isn't the case BTW ;) )

I suppose we should all be ultra-liberal and say "well if that's what he wants to play in, then it's his right, yadda yadda", but I don't want to say that in the Nazi uniform case: because I think it's wrong. Why? Because Nazi uniforms aren't politically "neutral"- they have an associated history and ideology I object to. Come to think of it, I'm sure we could dig up unpleasant incidences in the past no matter what regimental uniform someone was wearing. Another reason I don't "play war".

Someone wants to wear a "cheater" shirt? I can see the humour in wearing one out of irony. I don't think the tourney scene is that jaded (despite all the talk about "pushing the limit", "gamesmanship", "playing to win" - i.e. cheating) that it would ever look the other way if someone wiped or blatantly played on. That's why they have the rules, yes?

Now if someone was wearing shirts like "What's 6 million Jews anyway?" or even worse "30 million Kulaks" (a conveniently forgotten sidenote of history, it seems) - Then I'd feel justifed and go riding out on my high horse and advocate censorship.
 
Yep Cube, cos real muggers always wear T-shirts that advertise it...I remember Jeffrey Dahmer and Peter Sutcliffe wouldn't be seen dead without their 'I'm a serial killer, have a nice day' T-shirt, and the nutjob in Washington's 'Long range stone-cold killa' sweater was what gave him away.

Similarly, all those disaffected teens with their 'Crack smokin', satan worshipping' Nirvana T-shirt really are doing rocks whilst sacrifcing virgins.

The point being made about tha Evil shirts is that they could be viewed as making an intrinsic link between Paintball, cheating and some form of legitimacy, depending on perception.

In Paintball we do 'mug', just like in soccer footballers 'attack'...