Evil's new t shirts.

[TJ Lambini]

I find that amazing

It's weird that the Salm thing and these T-shirts are getting knickers in a twist, yet I looked through a recent issue of a pball magazine and there's a pic from a scenario game of a guy with a Nazi uniform and an SS badge on. Now call me crazy, but in my opinion that sort of thing is, oooh, 18,0000000 times more damaging to a sport eager to shed its image as a proving ground for neo-nazis and the Michigan Militia.

Wolf and Tyger - you both felt that tha Salm thing was cataclysmically bad, how do you feel about that picture? Cos as i said b4, it ain't necessary to fight this thing on rec/tourney boundaries, but I am interested to find out which you think is more potentially damaging?

 

[Beaker]

I find that amazing

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
It's weird that the Salm thing and these T-shirts are getting knickers in a twist, yet I looked through a recent issue of a pball magazine and there's a pic from a scenario game of a guy with a Nazi uniform and an SS badge on. Now call me crazy, but in my opinion that sort of thing is, oooh, 18,0000000 times more damaging to a sport eager to shed its image as a proving ground for neo-nazis and the Michigan Militia.

Wolf and Tyger - you both felt that tha Salm thing was cataclysmically bad, how do you feel about that picture? Cos as i said b4, it ain't necessary to fight this thing on rec/tourney boundaries, but I am interested to find out which you think is more potentially damaging?

From my POV I think that Nazi thing is more damaging, but I can see that some Rec ballers will just say "Oh, it's roleplaying, it's harmless"

Which I find rather odd.........

 

[Jones the Paint Magnet]

Whoah there!!

I may be a rec-baller but I think you'll find that there are those of us (Tyger included) who find the whole idea of "paintball as war re-enactment" rather tasteless, uniforms or not.

The idea of paintball actually being related in any meaningful way to war kinda dissolves past the age of 14, or sooner if you are fortunate enough to know any veterans

Sci-fi, ok. South Park, no probs. Invent a fictional "conflict" - I'll buy that. But start styling yourself as a WW2 campaign or whatnot - rather disrespectful to those who went through the real thing on my behalf, without the benefit of 5 minutes break in the safe area if they got hit.

Peace.

 

[Beaker]

Originally posted by Jones the Paint Magnet
Whoah there!!

I may be a rec-baller but I think you'll find that there are those of us (Tyger included) who find the whole idea of "paintball as war re-enactment" rather tasteless, uniforms or not.

The idea of paintball actually being related in any meaningful way to war kinda dissolves past the age of 14, or sooner if you are fortunate enough to know any veterans

Sci-fi, ok. South Park, no probs. Invent a fictional "conflict" - I'll buy that. But start styling yourself as a WW2 campaign or whatnot - rather disrespectful to those who went through the real thing on my behalf, without the benefit of 5 minutes break in the safe area if they got hit.

Peace.

I don't know of a single tourney player who would condone Salm's actions, although some (myself included) can see the funny side too.

But the fact that there are rec ball "real life" scenarios (which by definition mean there are groups of people who want to play them) might be doing much more harm to the future of the game than one incident in a cow field ever will - and that is never mentioned.

We aren't bagging on Rec, we are just trying to get some perspective on this whole thing.

 

[Baca Loco]

Geez o' pete

do I have a rec side argument ready to unleash but gonna wait to see how (if) Tyg and Wolf reply first.

 

[Recoil]

I find that amazing

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
I looked through a recent issue of a pball magazine and there's a pic from a scenario game of a guy with a Nazi uniform and an SS badge on. Now call me crazy, but in my opinion that sort of thing is, oooh, 18,0000000 times more damaging to a sport eager to shed its image as a proving ground for neo-nazis and the Michigan Militia.

I think there was something "similar" mentioned in a thread a while ago regarding the whole military connection, I was shot down in flames for saying that I thought the military connection was wrong and that we should avoid showing that side of paintabll... It was a long time ago, I dont particularly want to drag it up again..... (I got flamed real bad )

Someone wearing a Nazi uniform to play paintball is wrong and does nothing but harm for our sport, maybe even alienating a section of society and that cant be good. Someone wearing a cheaters last longer shirt probably does the sport no harm externally but releasing and wearing these shirts may not be a smart move politically....

(Also for as a benchmark I when I say military connections I mean the markers made to look like real guns, uniforms, helmets that sort of stuff....)

sorry its a rambling post I just got in from work

 

[crom-dubh]

The problem with scenario games which "glorify war" and rec ballers who do like the militaristic aspect of it, is that their ideals on how paintball will progress is completely different to tourney players. Rec ball and scenario games are not a sport, dont pretend to be a sport and probably dont want to be a sport. So how can we blame them for hindering Paintball from being seen as a sport? I recently organised a punter day at work and everyone was talking about watching "saving private ryan", "platoon" and other war films to get them in the spirit. Why this a bad thing? If that is what makes rec ball appealing, then it does have a place in paintball.

I know I have generalised here, but you get the picture.

Fire extinuishers at the ready

 

[Beaker]

We weren't talking about that.

I have no truck AT ALL with Rec play that is based on shooty shooty men in camo. I do when it includes historical references that to many are frankly unacceptable. I too have organised many "punter" days and I know where it's at. But if they turned up and there was a player in SS dress, helmet etc would they really laugh it off or think "bloody hell he's freaky - best leave and I'll tell my mates about this down the pub (and put them off too)"

So Rec-ball with camo in the woods great - SS uniforms etc - not
Tourney ball with non Camo on Sup air great - Cheating sniper not

But as Pete posted elsewhere - the organisational cock-ups at WC far outweighed ANY negative impact the Salm incident could have done to impressionable minds watching tourney ball for the first time over at Kissemere.

 

[crom-dubh]

Hmmm dont remember condoning SS uniforms.....

And I do believe that war re-enactments were mentioned.

I personally think its a tad immature to pretend to play war but it doesnt mean that it is WRONG for others to do so. OK OK the SS thang is going over the top.

 

[Beaker]

Crom.

See the quote from TJ in Recoil's post.

We were debating the impact on paintball of the much talked about Salm incident vs the SS thing.

Hence my "we aren't talking about that" bit.

How are you anyway you old dog? Might pop down to the Flag sometime.