Dont say you didnt know!!

[Magued]

Forgot

I have a example for you Pete.
Lane once asked me when we meet some years ago. Magued you are muslim right? I said yes.
So tell me why the hell do those people in the middle east hate the US? Well I think a tread and a film like this explains alot where the hate comes from and can sheed some light on the issue. Beacuse clearly alot of the info doenst come thru.

Magued

 

[Robbo]

I dont agree with you on this one!

First of all, Information is power. People need to know as many sides of a story as they can possible hear to form a opinion.
This information is not availible for everybody and needs to be. In the Arab countrys you wont get alot of point of views from the Israeli side. Same thing in Israel i presume. In the US witch is Israels biggest backer and a huge reason why the situation is what it is the information is not going thru either. Its being filtered and arranged. Now if you took some time and actuelly watched the film you would know what Im talking about.
Forums like this where people from all over the world visit is a perfect place to exchange views and information, and by doing that getting closer to a solution.

About the 911 thing, you dont have to tell me about those morons Pete. And remember that my son and my sister and her family where in Egypt at Sharm el Sheik when we where in Denver NPPL last year. When 3 bombs exploded around them and killed 80 egyptians. It was just pure luck that they managed to get back unharmed. So my feelings for those extremist animals is not great!!

Magued

Information isn't power mate, the use of information is.

And we have already seen what both parties have achieved with the information they have at hand ......... we need to introduce pre-eminent ideals of humanity, real justice and reason into political decision making and until that is done, it's all bullsh!t !

And in that pusruit, I ain't holding my breath mate.

 

[Lovetone]

quote

the information is not going thru either. Its being filtered and arranged. Now if you took some time and actuelly watched the film you would know what Im talking about.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
one video isnt going to make people sit up and take note

reason being, that wonderful thing called editing
any documentary can have facts made to appear more prevalent and thus important. indeed the opposite can also occur, whereby there is omission of important facts or glossing over of important points.

dont ever form opinions just on the strength of one documentary. how can you trust that the source material is intact and not edited in a biased fashion?
if anyone has ever watched popular documentaries by people such as michael moore recently im sure you can get the point im making (i hope)...

this is no diss to magued per-se
its good that he is attempting to allow people the opportunity to take an interest in current affairs and in doing so, providing them with a source to increase their knowledge. however i dont beleive watching one film can be seriosuly taken as a basis for forming solid opinions.

 

[Robbo]

I have a example for you Pete.
Lane once asked me when we meet some years ago. Magued you are muslim right? I said yes.
So tell me why the hell do those people in the middle east hate the US? Well I think a tread and a film like this explains alot where the hate comes from and can sheed some light on the issue. Beacuse clearly alot of the info doenst come thru.

Magued

Mag, you seem to be missing my point, Lane's enlightenment is a positive thing for Lane but in the scheme of things it has achieved nothing.
The political machinery involved seems unable to detach itself from agendas, bias (whether political or religious) and bigotry, and it is this political machinery that lies at the very heart of the direction these crises take.

 

[Munkeh]

Ok,

Just out of interest all of you guys there with these strong opinions on this matter, how have you formed them? Have you taken what other people have written and formed an opinion around them by almost taking a weighted average depending on how right you think that piece of reporting to be.

Now call me mis-guided but this isn't forming your own opinion, this is just taking someone else's opinion which you consider to be right. The only way to form your own opinion is to be there on the ground at the time of the incident and be directly involved, everything else is purely hearsay.

Now admittedly you can form an opinion on what you directly have read/seen but you cannot change peoples opinion by saying I have just read someones article it says x,y,z that I consider to be right hence I am right QED. Peoples opinion on said matters don't work like that and so personally I think this thread is pointless as everyone already has what they believe is the right opinion and no film/book/tv program etc is going to change that. But admittedly... I could be wrong...

 

[Magued]

Pete.

Are you saying Lane cant be President?
I would say that if people know more they can also set more conditions.
For example. If the Us voters know more about the situation they could demand from their senators and President to push for justice in the middle east. Dont you think? Why else would people go so far to filter news and make sure people dont get information?

Lovetone.

Im not saying that 1 film have all the answers, I say go and seek information and get input from all sides and then form a opinion! Its the lack of knowledge thats bother me and the lack of intrest when people are dying every day.

Munkeh

Im sure you can give people information that they havent got before that will make them change a opinion. That happpens all the time. And yes you can belive stuff that you have only heard as "purely hearsay"

Its purely hearsay for me that the Indians in North america was killed and robbed for almost everything they had, And I belive it 100%.

Magued

 

[Robbo]

Pete.

I would say that if people know more they can also set more conditions.
For example. If the Us voters know more about the situation they could demand from their senators and President to push for justice in the middle east. Dont you think?
Magued

Well, that's the theory mate.......democracy at its finest eh???

Bunkum Mag, pure bunkam !

 

[Buddha 3]

Buddha.

But surely the israelis understand that they are creating a bigger monster than they are currently fighting? I mean they cant just plan strategy based on 1 month? Where is the long term thinking and security in that thinking? They are smart people, no doubt so what are they thinking?

Magued

I really don't know. I'd like to think the Israelis know, but they may well be in a "whatever comes tomorrow, will be dealt with tomorrow" state of mind.

The Germans were smart people, yet they thought that they could bring the British to their knees by bombing it.
"Bomber" Harris, the commander of British Bomber Command was a smart man, yet he thought that bombing of German cities would bring them to their knees.
Carl Spaatz, the commander of both the 8th and 15th strategic US Army Air Forces was a smart man, but he thought that bombing German cities would bring the Germans to their knees.

If history has tought us one thing, it is unfortunatly that history teaches us nothing, which is why history tends to repeat itself. I guess we are still like children. We all insist on finding things out for ourselves, rather than listen to our parents, who have been through much of the same stuff before us.

At the moment, the Israeli plan seems to be to create a buffer zone between Lebanon and themselves, which would put Israel just outside of Katyusha range. But what their long term plan is.....no idea. And what they intend to do with the Palestinians....even less idea.

 

[Munkeh]

Im not saying that 1 film have all the answers, I say go and seek information and get input from all sides and then form a opinion! Its the lack of knowledge thats bother me and the lack of intrest when people are dying every day.

There are alot more people dying everyday in places far more volitile than the Middle East yet you choose to enlighten people about this particular conflict. Just wondering why this is? Why is this conflict so much more important than the conflict in Somalia or Congo that you feel the need to voice you opinions?

Please don't take this as a personal attack just as a question as to why and about what people should be informed of?

 

[Buddha 3]

Ok,

Just out of interest all of you guys there with these strong opinions on this matter, how have you formed them? Have you taken what other people have written and formed an opinion around them by almost taking a weighted average depending on how right you think that piece of reporting to be.

Now call me mis-guided but this isn't forming your own opinion, this is just taking someone else's opinion which you consider to be right. The only way to form your own opinion is to be there on the ground at the time of the incident and be directly involved, everything else is purely hearsay.

Now admittedly you can form an opinion on what you directly have read/seen but you cannot change peoples opinion by saying I have just read someones article it says x,y,z that I consider to be right hence I am right QED. Peoples opinion on said matters don't work like that and so personally I think this thread is pointless as everyone already has what they believe is the right opinion and no film/book/tv program etc is going to change that. But admittedly... I could be wrong...

I don't think that anyone is under the illusion this thread will lead to world peace, but that doesn't mean we should just shut up and watch the news.

I can only speak for myself, but my opinion on most things in recent (living) history is based on reading things from both sides, speaking to people from both sides, and then deciding how the pieces of the jigsaw fit together.


You said: "The only way to form your own opinion is to be there on the ground at the time of the incident and be directly involved, everything else is purely hearsay."
That is the basic mistake that many people make. The opinion of those directly involved is probably the most tainted opinion there is. Most people would agree that the bad guys in WW2 were the Germans. Most Germans at that time would disagree with that. Having spoken to many, many veterans, all I can say is that it is pretty hard to form an unbiased opinion when bombs are exploding around you. You tend to hate the guts of whoever is doing that to you, even if they are the good Samaritans themselves. The most reliable information is pure, factual stuff, collected by outsiders.