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Tom Allen

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Jul 4, 2003
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I have no personal views either way, basically because i don't have enough knowlege of the situation. But as everyone knows, to believe the media is to wear blinkers, and expect to be shafted from behind. So i guess we'll never know who actually has the right to the land.
 

Magued

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Tom

Tom Allen said:
I have no personal views either way, basically because i don't have enough knowlege of the situation. But as everyone knows, to believe the media is to wear blinkers, and expect to be shafted from behind. So i guess we'll never know who actually has the right to the land.

According to the UN and I belive every country in the world including the US. The west bank is occupied land. I hope that answer the question.As you can see in the movie alot of Jews knows this and wish to stop the occupation.

Magued
 

Magued

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Tom Allen said:
what about the gaza strip
The israelis left the Gaza strip and emptied the settlements early this year I belive. They are however controlling all borders and currently they are bombing it to pieces.

Magued
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Gaza strip? Same deal as the West bank...

Who has claim? Everybody and nobody.
Don't forget that what is now Israel used to be called Palestine and used to be under British control.
There have always been Jews in Palestine though, but it wasn't until WW2 that they really started working on creating their own state. Relations between the Jews and Arab peoples in the area have always suffered from frictions, even before the state of Israel was created in 1948.
For obvious reasons the British needed extra manpower during WW2, and so started drafting soldiers from all over their empire, including Palestine. This led to the creation of an independant Jewish brigade. However, the British were hesitant to put this brigade on active duty. The reason is that they did not want to train several thousand Jewish men to use weapons, give them combat experience and then once the war was over, send them back into Palestine, where they could cause all kinds of sh*t for the British rulers, which they were likely to do, since the desire to have their own state became stronger every time it became more and more clear what had happened to the Jewish people of Europe.

In the end, the pressure on the Brits became too strong, and the brigade went into action in Italy, fighting the Germans during the closing months of the war.
After the war, many of the veterans of the Jewish brigade formed the core of what became the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) and they were armed with weapons they had managed to steal and smuggle to Palestine during the war. So because they had a core of experienced and well armed troops, the Israelis were able to defeat the less experienced Arab forces that invaded Israel on the day the country gave birth to itself.
The US, due to the powerful Jewish lobby, was the first country to recognize the state of Israel.

Given what happened to the Jewish people during WW2, it only makes sense that most of the world was hesitant to deny them the right of self government. (Even though the British and others have tried to prevend Jewish Europeans moving to Palestine after the war, fearing that it would lead to more friction in an already troubled land. They even went to so far as to keep Jewish people incarcerated in former concentration camps.) After all, Europe and the US were suffering from a collective guild trip from not realizing sooner what was happening in the camps and in some cases even actively helping deporting Jews to the camps.

Looking at how Israel was created, it makes so much sense that they are as aggressive as they are today. The present day generations have not lived through the holocaust themselves, but something like that leaves an imprint on a nation's mentality, particularly if, like the Jews, you have already been prosecuted for thousands of years, all over the world. It makes sense that Israel does not take sh*t from anybody, particularly from those that would rather see the country dead.

However, that does not mean that they should be given a card blanche. Of all people they should be aware of what it means to be dehumanized, so why they dehumanize the Palestinians in the way they do is beyond me. Although, arguably you could say that they have the right to be as stupid and racist as any other country. Still, it is not hard to understand where all this comes from. They had to fight the Palestinians (and the British) to be able to create the state of Israel, so I guess they still consider them to be the defeated foe.

What is much more puzzling is the fact that the rest of the world just sits by and shrugs its shoulders. Do we still feel guilty? Is that why we let Israel get away with bloody murder? I don't know. But the fact is that Israel continuously ignores several UN resolutions, while when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, it only took one resolution and the world acted. Could it be that we don't care, because there is nothing to be had from the Palestinians? Could it be because they are amongst the poorest of the poor and what's left of their land has little yield? Had they sat on lakes of oil, we may well have done something about it, who knows.

I can understand why Israel has now gone into Lebanon. I don't condone it, but I can understand it. But what Israel does to the people in the occupied territories...
Holland, like so many countries in Europe, has been occupied by the Germans during WW2 for 5 days short of 5 years. The avarage Dutch person suffered less during that time, than the avarage Palestinian does today. Food for thought.
 

Magued

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Buddha

Intresting points!
I see that you have read up, and it was a new point of view regarding the Jews in 1948 for me.

I cant however understand israels intentions regarding Lebanon. They have over 1000 Lebanese men in prison without trial. And by bombing the infrastructure of the intire land, how will that help them stopping Hizbollah?
Isnt that just going to breed more hate, and more future enemys?
You have to ask yourself, do they want to make sure Lebanon doesnt develop?
Look at the democratic movements that have been outing the syrians and made Lebanon on its way to a real rich and democratic country. What do you think is israels intention with destroying bridges, powerplants, watersupplies etc etc?

Magued
 

Magued

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Tyron ne

tyronne said:
after watching that !! I've seen a different view on the conflict and it's sad !!!

thanks Magued
Well.

Thanks for watching it and that you take some time and educate yourself. I think that if everybody bothered to do that this things would be much harder to get away with.

Magued
 

tyronne

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May 23, 2006
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Magued said:
Well.

Thanks for watching it and that you take some time and educate yourself. I think that if everybody bothered to do that this things would be much harder to get away with.

Magued
no thank you Magued ! !!!!


Guys please watch this before you post ( it's good and worth it ) !
 

pJervis

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Nov 10, 2005
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I always get a really bad feeling whenever i watch anything to do with the israelis and their conflicts, I don't think its so much to do with who has the right of ownership over the land faught over as tom said but i actually worry more about why the US and UK governments aren't getting off their arses and stepping in to back up UN desicions. The UK's loyalty to the US, and theirs to Israel IMO is wrong, the UN needs to act before the Arab nations get too pissed off.

well thats how i feel, sorry if it sounds young or naive but i wanted to give my POV

pete