CPL Coaching, Dump It

[Magued]

I dont get it?

Are we supposed to get rid of coaching from the sideline beacuse people cant handle it? And then go play the PSP where they have sideline coaching?

We cant have set of rules in Europe thats different from the US if we ever wish to compete. And frankly most teams SUCKS at using coaching, so instead of complain about it they need to practise it.

Giles, this format doesnt allow bad skilled teams to win as the coach wouldnt have anybody to coach if the players cant stay alive.

Magued

 

[BigbOYALA2]

I like coaching and I like playing with coaching, that's all I know.
Call me a simpleton, but it really just does not seem like a very big deal to me as long as it's a level playing ground.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Hmm

I think we should look at the overall picture here - and not nitpick at how to execute stuff.

I don't know of any other sport - except maybe for US Football, where coaches have such a great impact - and even in football, once a play is started, the coach is rendered ineffective.

Do we really want paintball to become so "managed" that coaches are a real impact in the game as it unfolds?

Personally I don't think so - I don't like the idea of paintball becoming livesize chess with paint guns.

If coaches want to play this game - they should get on-field - in whatever division suits their skill level when they are over the hill... and then stick to calling plays between points in the CPL.... not in-game coaching.

I understand why Magued says what he does - it is his team, and obviously he wants as much impact on the teams games as possible.... I would also in the same position!

But - I just don't think it is the right way for the sport to develop... I think it makes it a game for ""chess players" (albeit a very speedy version ).... rendering the players inconsequential to a great degree.

I would like to keep the spectator involvement - and if that means you can effectively coach at 9 AM - so be it - it is the same for both teams.... but the REAL coaching going on in most games should be decreased, by saying nobody can be at the netting, and no spectator can be closer to the field
than - for instance - 15 metres.

Oh - and Magued - when has any Euro team played X-ball in the PSP? - That's a non-argument buddy

Nick

 

[rpcruzr]

Are we supposed to get rid of coaching from the sideline beacuse people cant handle it? And then go play the PSP where they have sideline coaching?

I really wish this was a problem with most European teams, but it's not.

We're proud that you and your team represent Europe in the better championships in the USA, I personally am happy for you to be able to do that. I don't think, however, that we should change the rules in Europe because of one team.

We cant have set of rules in Europe thats different from the US if we ever wish to compete. And frankly most teams SUCKS at using coaching, so instead of complain about it they need to practise it.

Ok, valid point, just replace "we" with "I" and I agree. The majority of the teams will probably not see it that way.

Giles, this format doesnt allow bad skilled teams to win as the coach wouldnt have anybody to coach if the players cant stay alive.

This seems a lot like the "fast-loading" sugestion by Chicago a few posts back. You're mixing things to suit your point. You're right, sideline coaching does not per se improve the game of the players. If that's true, then why are you doing it? Your players are already some of the best in the world. Why not let them beat the competition with their own skills? Why not let the players mature for themselves in the field instead of telling them what to do? What is so wrong about that?

I don't think that one half of us is right and another is wrong. I think that for people that like to play with a coach, the sideline coaching is obviously a very valid point in the inverse proportion that it is not a valid point for those who don't like sideline coaching.

Personally, I think that it changes the format of the game completely.

 

[Magued]

Nick

I think the best team in CPL are supposed to play against some US teams in the World cup? But I might be wrong. Anyway we played the last world cup and would like to do it again. Im advocating a unified format and have a problem with changing the rules to fit people that cant handle different aspects. Beacuse if we start doing that by ourself here in Europe the Euro teams will suffer. If the PSP would change the rules regarding coahing then we should do the same. As we did when we moved out the coach box from the field.

Sideline coaching will always accure if we dont do drastic changes.

1. The spectators will have to be moved back at least 20 meters! But it will still not take away the problems with counter coaching etc that people have issues with. People will just scream higher and tempers will be even worse.
Also the coaching will only benifit the team with the biggest crowd. And people wont even see whats going on as the distance is getting to far.

2. Prohibit people from screaming positions etc.
If we ever want to have any kind of crowd outside paintball watching games this is absolutly retarded. What do you think the spectators in Paris thought when they first watched the CPL and everybody was screaming and jumping around and then when it was 7man finals on that field the speaker told them to not give positions etc. Extremly confusing and silly.

No, the answer is clearly that to avoid the fuss and give everybody the same possibillity to coach, they should have a area for 1 team coach and the crowd behind them on the grandstand. Then everybody will be on the same page. And teams will have to start learning how to use a coach, witch is the biggest problem in CPL right now.

Magued

 

[Magued]

I really wish this was a problem with most European teams, but it's not.

We're proud that you and your team represent Europe in the better championships in the USA, I personally am happy for you to be able to do that. I don't think, however, that we should change the rules in Europe because of one team.



Ok, valid point, just replace "we" with "I" and I agree. The majority of the teams will probably not see it that way.



This seems a lot like the "fast-loading" sugestion by Chicago a few posts back. You're mixing things to suit your point. You're right, sideline coaching does not per se improve the game of the players. If that's true, then why are you doing it? Your players are already some of the best in the world. Why not let them beat the competition with their own skills? Why not let the players mature for themselves in the field instead of telling them what to do? What is so wrong about that?

I don't think that one half of us is right and another is wrong. I think that for people that like to play with a coach, the sideline coaching is obviously a very valid point in the inverse proportion that it is not a valid point for those who don't like sideline coaching.

Personally, I think that it changes the format of the game completely.

I think you missunderstand me completly.
I wouldnt mind not having a coach if everybody is doing that. I didnt mind when they removed the coach boxes from the field and I wouldnt mind if PSP and Millennium next year would remove coaching all together. For us that plays alot of 7 man in NPPL the coaching thing doesnt help us at all. It can even be harmfull as my players dont develop the timing as good beacuse they are used to go on a call.
Im just having problems us in Europe doing our own rules. Sure now its only 1 or 2 teams that plays in the US. But I hope thats not the case for the rest of the future??

Magued

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Magued:

I'm in no way suggesting putting limits to what the spectators can scream - absolutely not!!

What I am saying is, that if the coaches were not allowed in front of the stands - it would severely decrease the effects of coaching.

We don't even have to move the spectators back 20 metres - for my sake the stands can come down to the edge of the netting... but if you - as a coach, is restricted to being a "normal spectator" - and in any available seat in the stands - then your coaching will have less of an impact on the game - which is what I want.

Your point about the Euro teams playing the NXL teams at the world cup is noted - and if you are right about that, I totally agree that we need to have coaching done the same way... but do we at the moment???

- I actually thought it was already different now - and that it was one of the reasons it is called CPL - and not X-Ball??

Nick

 

[Giles]

Several of the games are played without alot of spectators and "coaching" from the stands 20 meters away will be very effective. That means that teams will need "coache" for those games and the same problem occurs....
With the " coach spectator" at the net and the stands at 15-20 meters there is a better chance of an even playing field.
Moving the stands back 20 meters want solve anything.

Perhaps I am not making myself clear the stands are already 20 metres back, I dont think the crowd can be effective from that distance
I would prefer to lose the coach completely and let the crowd cheer whatever they want. Again if you have a coach on the sideline I think it has made the game less exciting and thats a shame
If you feel the crowd can be effective then we will have to disagree I guess
I dont want the snake moved at it opens up the view for the crowd and is usually the more exciting side to watch (when there is no coaching)

 

[rpcruzr]

I think you missunderstand me completly.
I wouldnt mind not having a coach if everybody is doing that. I didnt mind when they removed the coach boxes from the field and I wouldnt mind if PSP and Millennium next year would remove coaching all together. For us that plays alot of 7 man in NPPL the coaching thing doesnt help us at all. It can even be harmfull as my players dont develop the timing as good beacuse they are used to go on a call.
Im just having problems us in Europe doing our own rules. Sure now its only 1 or 2 teams that plays in the US. But I hope thats not the case for the rest of the future??

Magued

Ok, I see your concern now. You're right, I misunderstood completely. I'm sorry I insisted without getting the facts straight.

I can see as that can be a real problem, but doesn't that bring us to the whole "there can be only one" problem with all the leagues and different organizations?

I hope that we can have more teams stateside, but realistically I find that harder and harder for Euro teams.

Yourselves must be going through a lot of problems, and you're a top team, with a lot of sponsoring. And does it matter that much competing there? (Now, that would be a good thread, the whole USA vs. the Rest of the World)

 

[Rabies]

Now I'm going to speak from a spectator's viewpoint. The further away from the fields that the stands are moved, the less exciting the game is to watch. Moving the snake to the other side of the field removes most opportunity to see those killer runthroughs, and seeing people getting lit up when they get it wrong, which is what makes an otherwise incredibly dull spectator sport interesting to watch.

If the whole point is to create a format that is exciting to watch, then the crowd has to be close enough to feel part of the action, to at least think that their support is having some effect on the game. The crowd has to be in the best position to see the game-busting moves and people getting drilled in the head.

But if the stands are, say, 6 metres from the netting, then ALL the spectators must be kept behind that line; then (assuming there are a reasonable number of spectators) there is no practical way for them to communicate anything more complex than "good" or "bad", "yes" or "no". The problems happen when "spectators" line up as close to the netting as they can get, and are in a position to communicate specific information to specific players. I don't think a coach sitting in the front row of the bleachers can do that at very effectively.