CPL Coaching, Dump It

[Baca Loco]

Paul

Are there any limitations to what the "specators" can do? - movement limitations, etc.?

Hmm - this is my entire point - it is downright stupid for both the NXL, PSP and MS to say "only coaches in the pit", when EVERYONE knows there are coaches on the spectator side of the field also.

Then what is the point of the rule?

It's like "semi only - but we are not checking for it"

Anyone know what the purpose of changing away from the 04/05 coaching box is?

Nick

The only real limitation is that the PSP has, without any fanfare or announcement, moved the line back keeping the spectators a few feet further from the netting than in the past. In the NXL it isn't, in my opinion, a huge problem, and the only time I can recall a highly partisan crowd affecting the play of the match was WC semi last year between Oakland and Trauma. It's really a bigger problem for divisional play as the partisanship is more intense and there are often lots of friends and family of those teams in attendence without any grandstand seating and it gets ugly occasionally. For the NXL there of course remains lots of yelling and screaming from the sideline and counter-coaching but I think a lot of it is from peeps not directly associated with the teams; fans, friends of players, etc.

We didn't have official sideline coaching or a coach's box on the field last year either and I'm assuming they moved it so as not to block vision of the field from the spectator side.

 

[Christian-Malera]

The only real limitation is that the PSP has, without any fanfare or announcement, moved the line back keeping the spectators a few feet further from the netting than in the past. In the NXL it isn't, in my opinion, a huge problem, and the only time I can recall a highly partisan crowd affecting the play of the match was WC semi last year between Oakland and Trauma. It's really a bigger problem for divisional play as the partisanship is more intense and there are often lots of friends and family of those teams in attendence without any grandstand seating and it gets ugly occasionally. For the NXL there of course remains lots of yelling and screaming from the sideline and counter-coaching but I think a lot of it is from peeps not directly associated with the teams; fans, friends of players, etc.

We didn't have official sideline coaching or a coach's box on the field last year either and I'm assuming they moved it so as not to block vision of the field from the spectator side.

Baca Loco, what is your opinion, with your experience from NXL, on having a coach from both teams between the crowd and the net?
The crowd is moved back from the net about 6 meters or so.
This way there is no interference of the view from the stands, the coaches are more free to work and the partisanship would have less of a chance to make a difference.

 

[Giles]

Coaching totally ruins any of the jedi like moves that are very important to paintball. If you take two paintball players with equally good gun skills but one of them happens to have a brain, the smart player will win more often. Coaching makes everyone equal. Being able to figure out where everyone is and make the right move faster than the other guy is what distinguishes a good paintball player from a great one. That is a players responsibility to train themselves to know what to do in a given situation, having someone just give you the answer is kind of sad. Are paintball players getting that dumb they have be told everything? On a bigger level, a team that can communicate to their players what is going on (body counts, enemy positions etc) has an advantage over a team that was mute. If you want to tell people where to shoot then get out there to a back corner bunker or back center and play, then you can coach them as much as you want.

What gets exciting for the crowd is when they can see things going on that the player cannot and thus the tension builds.....Its like watching poker, you know what cards the other guys have you are just watching hoping your favorite guy will make the right moves. If you had coach telling you what to do the outcome is a little bit less exciting isnt it?? As a fan you can relate to the player on the field trying to figure out what is going on and you are rooting for or against them to make the right choices. If you have someone tellin them "look left" it takes a lot of the anticipation out of it.

That why we need to leave it all on the field and let the people who have been training to play paintball actually play not be remote controlled like some sort of video game. Coaching in terms of setting up plays, making sure your players execute them correctly, and giving feedback after the point/match is what coaches need to be doing not telling them where to shoot. Obviously teams have to do play within the format they are given but ask any of the people actually playing who have been playing paintball for a while and have some skill at reading the field, and most will say coaching is weak. The players who like coaching are the one that havent taken the time or energy to analyze what happens in a paintball game be it a Xball point or 7 man game, and to do the right thing. They are lazy and just want to be pointed in the right direction. So there it is my opinion flame away..........

I am so glad you posted that so perfectly...no flamin mate... you have it spot on
I have watched game upon game upon game and its knowhere near as exciting with the snake coaches, I can live with the crowd cheering like mad and not sitting in silence
Will anything get done probably not.............................................

 

[Baca Loco]

Baca Loco, what is your opinion, with your experience from NXL, on having a coach from both teams between the crowd and the net?
The crowd is moved back from the net about 6 meters or so.
This way there is no interference of the view from the stands, the coaches are more free to work and the partisanship would have less of a chance to make a difference.

If the coaching were to stay I think a narrowly confined coach's box between the field boundary and the netting with spectators backed off a bit would be fine. Ideally, spectators should be in their seats but ...

Additionally I prefer a style of coaching that isn't easily distracted by lots of yelling or even counter-coaching. I want my players to play paintball as opposed to following directions. My sideline coaches provide information, not directions, because my players know what to do and with the right info can make accurate judgements about when and how themselves.

As to the whole coaching from the sideline debate I tend to agree with Chicago--much as it pains me to say so -- though personally I could take it or leave it and be happy either way. The only real concern I have about it is the same concern I have about the changing Pro environment and that is; money and resources. The more skilled personnel and staff etc. that is required to compete effectively the likelihood of a greater disparity between the teams--at least in the near term--and if established Pro sports are an indication it will also be a long term concern because any sensible league wants parity or at least its approximation and the present lack of direction, institutional control or any apparent long term plan or vision suggests the opposite will likely happen and that isn't, IMHO, in Paintball's best interests.

 

[Chicago]

When the spectators got moved back, I don't think it was really a game consideration, but more of a safety consideration - those bike racks are the first time I havn't seen spectators jumping ropes or Polo-boundy boards and sticking their faces in the net.

As for the move of coaches to the pits, all those changes are driven by the NXL and there just seems to me to be a big anti-coaching contigent in the NXL. A couple teams got good at coaching so the other majority of the teams kept moving the coaching farther and farther from the players. It's at the point now where you basically have an open sideline for spectators but other than that almost no effective coaching at all.

Personally, I find that XBall is much more exciting the more you allow the coaches to be involved. It doesn't work so well when you don't have skilled coaches(or even worse, one good and one crappy coach), but it's great when you have 2 coaches who know what they are doing. I think it's sad that the trend seems to be minimize coaching instead of let coaching develop.

 

[MissyQ]

develop into what? A bigger debacle than we are seeing now?

I think coaches are vital to a team, but only between points and off the feild, otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with Chris Remuzzi

 

[Dougal]

Why not...

...just have transparent bunkers then there'll be absolutely no need for coaches

Come on guys, coaching (as it is at the moment) is spoiling the skill and excitement of this sport. And everyone knows it.

Dougal

 

[Baca Loco]

develop into what? A bigger debacle than we are seeing now?

I think coaches are vital to a team, but only between points and off the feild, otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with Chris Remuzzi

And the one thing you have in common is knowing damn little about Xball. Though possibly slightly more than Dougal.

 

[Christian-Malera]

I think we are discussing two things at the same time.

1. is coaching good or bad, I realy don't care either way.

2. spectator participation, as long as we, they, everyone wants that we need to have coaching. Can we agree on that?

I just want a level playing field, this is not the case now, now the team with the most fans, has an advantage.

 

[Chicago]

Coaching is NECESSARY so long as you have matches played where you can't reliably expect a large number of spectators. If there are gong to be matches where there will only be ahandful of spectators, coaching is needed to counter the advantage of one team having most or all of the spectators.

Aside from that, coaching is also good.