cheating fundamentalists (long)

[David Jive-ass]

I've read a few old threads and there seems to be a naive approach to 'cheating' evident here. I think us paintballers need to be more honest about the way that this game is actually played or else we are never going to progress as a sport. We need realism based on the way things really are, not the way we pretend things really, ummm, are (or not)...

Like with any sport, Paintball has its fair share of cheaters, opportunists and others who suffer moments of weakness. Also, there are even the falsely punished/accused.

There are some people who walk on to the field with the idea that they are going to do anything to win. And then there are others who walk on to the field, want to play fair, but somehow end up attracting a penalty (either 'cos they deserve it or because of marshal error). I like to think that the former (let's call them 'serial cheaters') are in a minority and don't usually last long in the sport.

Me, I try not to cheat, I try to play within the rules... but I don't go around blasting this team or that player for being a 'cheater' just because he got two-for-one'd once. That's just childish. In the same vein, we all know, deep down inside, that this isn't a game of honour. Isn't that why we have marshals?

There is no black and white here, there is only a grey that gets played every time you pick up your marker. Don't go out there to cheat or, on the other hand, think that everyone you play against is out to cheat you. That will just make you bitter and twisted and you'll soon be selling your kit. What I am saying is that let's be adult when we talk about cheating, not just trundle out the usual lame 'cheaters suck' line.

I don't condone or promote unfair play, it's just that I realise that it is impossible for everyone to play within the rules all the time. Don't we all, and if so, then shouldn't we all treat the subject in that light?

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by David Jive-ass
What I am saying is that let's be adult when we talk about cheating, not just trundle out the usual lame 'cheaters suck' line.

If you think this is a long post you've got some larning to do. Pete types longer paragraphs between breaths (tho his head gets really red)

Maybe a good start is to stop characterizing rules infractions as "cheating?" Then, instead of cheaters we could call them violaters or rule-breaking motherless sons of Satan perhaps.

 

[manike]

What is a cheat...

cheat ( P ) Pronunciation Key (cht)
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
v. tr.
To deceive by trickery; swindle: (hiding hits?)
To deprive by trickery; defraud: (removing hits?)
To mislead; fool: (to make it look like you aren't hit?)
To elude; escape: (to use equipment that hides of avoids hits, i.e. gives bouncers)

v. intr.
To act dishonestly; practice fraud. (losing hits, playing on, where do we stop?)
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: (any thing not allowed within the rules if you violate it on purpose...)

Kind of sums up what a cheat is maybe?

So yeah maybe we shouldn't call them cheats

 

[duffistuta]

You're all talking bollocks

Three words: ****ing cheatin' ****s

(Copyright: The Turks)

 

[manike]

Ahh the Turks. Respect to them and those days. I remember celebrating when they won Mayhem

In fact I think I still have a copy of the Paintball Adventures with them on the front cover after their win.

I think it was one of the first years I marshalled Mayhem and it was nice to have a team win it, where you didn't feel like you were constantly being duped and run around like some of the other teams made you feel.

 

[David Jive-ass]

I have been in mugging situations where I have gone in for a mugging, felt balls hit me but still pulled the trigger and shot balls off at the guy... I can't explain the thought processes but I did not mean to cheat. Perhaps there is a delay in the shooting override as a result of the mental commitment to shoot (exacerbated by a heated situation).

Twice before in this situation I have insisted that a player I marked is put back into play 'cos the marshals (understandably) read it as a case of mutual eliminations. Strange that in this world of such honour-bound Paintball players (if we are to believe that the sentiments reflected here are a true reflection of all players) that I have never had this act reciprocated, even though I have obviously marked the guy before me and been removed as a mutual elimination or (WORSE) the other guy put in and me eliminated.

Even the cleanest team will pick up penalty points at some stage. And there are situations (like in a mugging) which are filled with nuance. I think that we need to reflect this in the way we discuss the issue.

Duff, If we go back to the Turk's records at tournaments, will they be totally penalty free? I doubt it. Even the team that tries to be squeaky clean (and I'm thinking of my team here) picks up penalty ponts or will be criticised by others as playing a fine line with the rules at some stage or the other.

Manike, your definition, fails to pick up the nuances I am talking about. I think it is obvious that just 'cos you fall foul of the laws doesn't always mean you cheated. Now go look at a copy of pgi, exmine the headwear of players... are the guys wearing woolen beanies cheats? Your definition would say 'yes', but there isn't a rule that states what the texture of your headwear should be, so technically, 'no'.

I think you guys are missing my point, I know that there are cheaters and that cheating happens, but I don't think it's worse than any other sport. In my original post I was complaining about paintballers over-emphasis on 'cheating'. I don't know any other sport where cheating is given as much prominence as in the mind of the players, do you? Half the teams I talk to at a tourney claim they were cheated when they lose a game, it's pathetic. And this is my main point: THE OVEREMPHASIS ON CHEATING DETRACTS FROM THIS SPORT WE LOVE. I can only imagine that people wonder why we play Paintball if the majority of our match reports are how we lost 'cos the other team cheated (statistically, the majority of teams are losers).

Sorry guys I don't want to upset your world view that puts you at the centre, but the best teams in the world aren't the best cheaters in the world; they are the most skilled/organised!In the SA Open in 2001 my team didn't lose one match. We were unstoppable. We also didn't pick up one penalty point. I log on to our local paintball forum the day after the tourney and there are the usual anonymous ***holes, claiming that they saw this guy wiping or playing on. That's what I'm talking about...

 

[duffistuta]

I never saw the Turks

pick up pens whilst watching them or playing with 'em - expect they did get the odd one - probably for hot guns cos Docherty was - and still is - a moron.

And don't mind me mate, I'm just gobbing off - it's all about rules, enforcement of rules and personal morality.

PS There are a lot of ****in' cheating ****s about though.

 

[Tyger]

Well then I have a question then.

If a guy steps out of bounds, and steps back in, is that cheating or a "Man that was dumb" move?

Is there a distinction between intentional cheating and accidental? Should there be?

And if everyone cheats, why has nobody grown a pair in the tounrament circuts and punished them to the fullest extent of the rules AND write up the unadultered scores and penalty lists?

-Tyger

 

[duffistuta]

If a guy steps out of bounds, and steps back in, is that cheating or a "Man that was dumb" move?

>>>Cheating, pure and simple. Doesn't pull himself he's a cheat.

Is there a distinction between intentional cheating and accidental? Should there be?

>>>Yes. Yes.

And if everyone cheats, why has nobody grown a pair in the tounrament circuts and punished them to the fullest extent of the rules AND write up the unadultered scores and penalty lists?

Cos that organiser would probably start to lose teams and sponsors pretty quickly, unfortunately.

 

[manike]

Originally posted by David Jive-ass
Manike, your definition, fails to pick up the nuances I am talking about. I think it is obvious that just 'cos you fall foul of the laws doesn't always mean you cheated. Now go look at a copy of pgi, exmine the headwear of players... are the guys wearing woolen beanies cheats? Your definition would say 'yes', but there isn't a rule that states what the texture of your headwear should be, so technically, 'no'.

Wow there. Where did I say wearing beanies was cheating? That's head protection and fine. Next you'll be saying anything other than skin tight licra (NO Tyger!) is cheating within my definition? Wearing two beanies rolled up at the front and two bandanna's to do more than just get protection is not illegal either. But maybe it ought to be?...

There is a difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating. If you look at the definitions below it's to do with the intention.

If my reg goes bad and spikes giving me a hot gun, that's an accident and not cheating. If you wind it up for an advantage on the field that's cheating.